Re-bluing: its impact on collectability and value

siegersallee · 05-30-2012, 05:35 PM

Hi all,

I have seen a 1918 luger that has caught my eye.
It is a DWM with all matching including magazine and grips with about 95ish blue and 93ish straw (very subjective).

Anyway, it was re-blued about 20 years ago.

From very close inspection of the pictures, it does look very nice and the bluing was professionally done...by someone on the board if I remember.

So the punch line: what is the impact on collectability and value?

Richard

alanint · 05-30-2012, 06:16 PM

Complete. Unless the example is something exceedingly rare advanced collectors will never touch it and ANY reblue job affects value by 30-50% depending on the skill of the refinisher.

JTD · 05-30-2012, 07:39 PM

rebluing on a collectable pistol is about the same as putting your finger on a rock, and hitting it with a hammer. OUCH..............50 to 70% drop from original finish unless a really rare model. John

mrerick · 05-30-2012, 08:45 PM

Would an all matching Simson Luger that was previously improperly refinished be worth a full restoration? Would you get your investment back?

Marc

alvin · 05-30-2012, 09:01 PM

The "15. MARZ 1895" Mauser Pistol was printed on page 49 of Jean Huon's Mauser book. It's the first time I saw this famous piece in hi-resolution color picture (older books had its b/w images). To my surprise, it was nickle plated by someone in the past. Lord. It was left alone in that state though. That's one option.

cirelaw · 05-30-2012, 09:06 PM

Its like buying somsone elses' ex-girlfriend with perminent make up. There are loads of others that need a home!

cirelaw · 05-30-2012, 09:25 PM

She lost her virginity to the hands of someone who didn't like they way she looked before! Suppose you decide break up, First question, "was she reblued?? All that original beauty she had as you found will be stripped away. Natural wear is a legitimate aspect. My best non-legal opinion is sit on it. Cant hurt anything!! PS Acid is forvever! Try selling any Luger after 2 seperate plastic surgeries!

spartacus38 · 05-30-2012, 10:00 PM

I would guess a reblued Luger would be worth about 50%.
Bob

sheepherder · 05-30-2012, 10:43 PM

I believe re-bluing would only affect it's value to a collector. To the Great Unwashed {I are one], it would not affect the value at all. But only if re-blued (read: dipped).

Buffing, sanding, grinding, engraving are a whole different matter.

Edward Tinker · 05-30-2012, 11:19 PM

Keep in mind that are you talking a re-blue or a restore?

I have a feeling you were offered a restore by one of the gunsmiths here on the forum, so a restore and a bubba reblue are totally different.

I think of a reblue, as being a buffed a bit, then reblued luger, using improper techniques.

A restore of proper bluing is worth less than a normal gun, but more than a 'reblue'.

Friends I know, and I agree with, is that a restore is worth about half of what a 98% original gun is worth...

Ed

MikeP · 05-31-2012, 02:55 AM

see no dif between retore and reblue.
It's only original once.

siegersallee · 05-31-2012, 07:54 AM

Yes, Ed, this Luger was offered to me by one of the highly regarded gunsmiths on this board and I very much like it.

Now that I think more about it, the pistol may well have been "restored" and not just "re-blued". My bad, I should have been more precise.

From, the comments, it looks like everyone agrees that assuming everything is matching and correct, an original condition Luger is more desirable than a re-stored one.

Thanks guys for all your input.

Richard

Edward Tinker · 05-31-2012, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Would an all matching Simson Luger that was previously improperly refinished be worth a full restoration? Would you get your investment back?

Marc

I think the value would get your investment back, provided the initial investment was above shooter price, but close to it?

I think Simson's are undervalued for their rarity, there are less of them made than Krieghoff's (and yes, Kriegs are better finished and fitted)....

cirelaw · 05-31-2012, 08:30 PM

You are both helping us all by haveng this friendly and frank discussion. Assume a test luger surfaces like the one on Gunbroker with the "funcky' grips .This should only remain in its condition except the hidicious grips.Why because this test pieces lived through 100 years of blood, sweat and tears. I was considering buying it just to rid such a piece by the cheap disrespect this Jailer has done!. I dont see any test peaces in any condition to face plastic surgery much less castration with a dull butter knife for treason. I learned practicing trial trial law for over 24 years, Hes getting the publicity useing a decent test piece as his Poster Luger. He cant be that deaf, ignorent. In Law for every responce there is a motive. Hes belittled a beautiful piece and wont replace the pretty with proper grips as the it might sell. Then he will need another 'Luger poster child'! TED THE MIRACLE WORKER WILL ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS AND CONCERN. He has plenty of work an can afford that luxary! Once you chemicall strip away a hundred years, you have forever lost part of 'OUR LUGER HISTORY' Ted knows what guns should be transform and those that should be left alone!

mrerick · 05-31-2012, 08:50 PM

Ed, thanks for the feedback. I have a mid to low shooter price invested in the base Simson, so sounds like it's a worthwhile project.

It does amaze me that Simson Lugers don't command a greater interest than the Krieghoffs, especially considering the core of the stories behind their manufacture and rarity. Only 12,000 or so total, right?

Marc

05-30-2012, 05:35 PM	#1
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 105 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Re-bluing: its impact on collectability and value Hi all, I have seen a 1918 luger that has caught my eye. It is a DWM with all matching including magazine and grips with about 95ish blue and 93ish straw (very subjective). Anyway, it was re-blued about 20 years ago. From very close inspection of the pictures, it does look very nice and the bluing was professionally done...by someone on the board if I remember. So the punch line: what is the impact on collectability and value? Richard

05-30-2012, 08:45 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Would an all matching Simson Luger that was previously improperly refinished be worth a full restoration? Would you get your investment back? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-30-2012, 10:43 PM	#9
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	I believe re-bluing would only affect it's value to a collector. To the Great Unwashed {I are one], it would not affect the value at all. But only if re-blued (read: dipped). Buffing, sanding, grinding, engraving are a whole different matter. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-30-2012, 11:19 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Keep in mind that are you talking a re-blue or a restore? I have a feeling you were offered a restore by one of the gunsmiths here on the forum, so a restore and a bubba reblue are totally different. I think of a reblue, as being a buffed a bit, then reblued luger, using improper techniques. A restore of proper bluing is worth less than a normal gun, but more than a 'reblue'. Friends I know, and I agree with, is that a restore is worth about half of what a 98% original gun is worth... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-31-2012, 08:50 PM	#15
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Ed, thanks for the feedback. I have a mid to low shooter price invested in the base Simson, so sounds like it's a worthwhile project. It does amaze me that Simson Lugers don't command a greater interest than the Krieghoffs, especially considering the core of the stories behind their manufacture and rarity. Only 12,000 or so total, right? Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-30-2012, 06:16 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Complete. Unless the example is something exceedingly rare advanced collectors will never touch it and ANY reblue job affects value by 30-50% depending on the skill of the refinisher.

05-30-2012, 07:39 PM	#3
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 217 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	rebluing on a collectable pistol is about the same as putting your finger on a rock, and hitting it with a hammer. OUCH..............50 to 70% drop from original finish unless a really rare model. John

05-30-2012, 09:01 PM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	The "15. MARZ 1895" Mauser Pistol was printed on page 49 of Jean Huon's Mauser book. It's the first time I saw this famous piece in hi-resolution color picture (older books had its b/w images). To my surprise, it was nickle plated by someone in the past. Lord. It was left alone in that state though. That's one option.

05-30-2012, 09:06 PM	#6
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Its like buying somsone elses' ex-girlfriend with perminent make up. There are loads of others that need a home!

05-30-2012, 09:25 PM	#7
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	She lost her virginity to the hands of someone who didn't like they way she looked before! Suppose you decide break up, First question, "was she reblued?? All that original beauty she had as you found will be stripped away. Natural wear is a legitimate aspect. My best non-legal opinion is sit on it. Cant hurt anything!! PS Acid is forvever! Try selling any Luger after 2 seperate plastic surgeries!

05-30-2012, 10:00 PM	#8
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	I would guess a reblued Luger would be worth about 50%. Bob

05-31-2012, 02:55 AM	#11
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	see no dif between retore and reblue. It's only original once.

05-31-2012, 07:54 AM	#12
siegersallee User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 292 Thanks: 105 Thanked 57 Times in 34 Posts	Yes, Ed, this Luger was offered to me by one of the highly regarded gunsmiths on this board and I very much like it. Now that I think more about it, the pistol may well have been "restored" and not just "re-blued". My bad, I should have been more precise. From, the comments, it looks like everyone agrees that assuming everything is matching and correct, an original condition Luger is more desirable than a re-stored one. Thanks guys for all your input. Richard

05-31-2012, 08:30 PM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	You are both helping us all by haveng this friendly and frank discussion. Assume a test luger surfaces like the one on Gunbroker with the "funcky' grips .This should only remain in its condition except the hidicious grips.Why because this test pieces lived through 100 years of blood, sweat and tears. I was considering buying it just to rid such a piece by the cheap disrespect this Jailer has done!. I dont see any test peaces in any condition to face plastic surgery much less castration with a dull butter knife for treason. I learned practicing trial trial law for over 24 years, Hes getting the publicity useing a decent test piece as his Poster Luger. He cant be that deaf, ignorent. In Law for every responce there is a motive. Hes belittled a beautiful piece and wont replace the pretty with proper grips as the it might sell. Then he will need another 'Luger poster child'! TED THE MIRACLE WORKER WILL ANSWERS YOUR QUESTIONS AND CONCERN. He has plenty of work an can afford that luxary! Once you chemicall strip away a hundred years, you have forever lost part of 'OUR LUGER HISTORY' Ted knows what guns should be transform and those that should be left alone!