Sgt. Alvin York and the Luger

Hugo Borchardt · 04-12-2012, 12:54 PM

His is a great story and the movie is one of my favorite movies.

From "Classic Handguns of the 20th Century" by David Arnold:

"There is an unsubstantiated claim that the American World War I hero Sgt. Alvin York used a liberated Luger in his final shootout with a German squad of soldiers instead of a 1911 45 Pistol."

If true, now that's a gun I would pay anything for. Funny some guy probably has it as a shooter somewhere and no one even knows it is the gun York used.

Clark

Vlim · 04-12-2012, 01:08 PM

I believe that claim is the result of a movie made many, many years ago. They had problems getting a blank-firing 1911 to work, so they substituted it with a luger in the movie. I guess that image stuck

padredan · 04-12-2012, 01:17 PM

that would sound about right, but who knows.

Curly1 · 04-12-2012, 01:18 PM

Vlim is correct.

"Originally, Sgt. Alvin York used his M1911 sidearm while taking cover in a crater, gunned down six Germans with his M1911 pistol, firing back to front like he hunted turkeys but M1911 Pistols were difficult to covert to blanks at the time of filming so they simply had Cooper liberate Luger P08 off of a dead German soldier. Cooper having met York initially refused to shoot the scene with the Luger, but was told because of timing they needed to shoot the scene with the weapon, and was promised they'd re-shoot the scene with the M1911, but this never happened."

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Sergeant_York

Hugo Borchardt · 04-12-2012, 02:03 PM

Very cool clarifications, gentlemen. Glad I didn't run out and buy a fake! LOL

mrerick · 04-12-2012, 07:45 PM

Gary, That's quite a Website. This page:

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Luger_P08

lists all the "appearances" of the Luger P.08!

Marc

CavScoutEurope · 04-12-2012, 08:26 PM

Did you guys know that York wasn't carrying a M1903 Springfield rifle, but a M1917 American Enfield Rifle?

GySgt1811 · 04-12-2012, 09:11 PM

CavScout,

I've heard before that his weapon was not an '03; but, - and I don't know, just asking - was it an Enfield or a M1917 Remington? In any case, great hero, great story, and Mr. Cooper did a great job in the movie.

Regards,

John

saab-bob · 04-12-2012, 09:27 PM

I was just watching a TV program this morning on the History Channel called "10 Greatest Shootouts". It was hosted by Will from "Sons of Guns" and Rich from "American Guns".
Pretty interesting,they talked about the Sgt York story. I think they claimed he used a Springfield till he ran out of ammo and then switched to the 1911.
The info I thought was fascinating was about the "Little Bohemia" shootout. This was between the Dillinger gang and the FBI in the 1930's. They where claiming that "Baby Faced Nelson" used a Colt 1911 pistol that had been converted to a submachine gun! It had a Thompson fore grip attached with a 30 round mag. Nelson was one bad dude!
I also liked the segment about "Bonnie and Clyde" Clyde had bobbed his BAR's and used to wear them under his long coat hanging from a shoulder strap. I saw one of these guns at a "Bonnie and Clyde" museum display in San Diego awhile back. Will and Rich claimed this weapon was the reason they escaped from a trap the police had set for them at a motel. They even shot up a armored car to get away! At that same display they also had the Ford"Death Car" that they both died in. Not a pretty sight, it looked like it had been used for a machine gun demo at a SOF convention.
Bob

padredan · 04-12-2012, 10:20 PM

that bonnie and clyde shoot out was in Joplin Mo. I now live about an hour from the bonnie and clyde ambush site, near gibsland La. . I have visted it an there is just a small marker on the site stating that bonnie and clyde were killed there. They were just small time crooks robbing gas stations and small grocery stores for the most part. never ever scoring much more that a few hundred dollars . Still the were one of texas most sought after murders. Any one in law enforcement , especialy texas dps knew about the parker barrow gang. Years ago i had some dealings with some of the barrow decendents, i will just say they have not changed much over the years. There are several fakes of the ford death car, the certified original is at the texas ranger musem in waco texas, I did get a look at the death certificate on them both, it reads "found in car dead" about as simple as it gets.

Curly1 · 04-12-2012, 11:03 PM

I don't think it would have mattered which one he used it would still have been a bad day for the Hun.

Dwight Gruber · 04-12-2012, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Gary, That's quite a Website. This page:

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Luger_P08

lists all the "appearances" of the Luger P.08!

Marc

That's quite a cool website, but they don't cover it "all." We have them beat in several directions

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...t=movie+lugers

--Dwight

04-12-2012, 12:54 PM	#1
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Sgt. Alvin York and the Luger His is a great story and the movie is one of my favorite movies. From "Classic Handguns of the 20th Century" by David Arnold: "There is an unsubstantiated claim that the American World War I hero Sgt. Alvin York used a liberated Luger in his final shootout with a German squad of soldiers instead of a 1911 45 Pistol." If true, now that's a gun I would pay anything for. Funny some guy probably has it as a shooter somewhere and no one even knows it is the gun York used. Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

04-12-2012, 01:17 PM	#3
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	that would sound about right, but who knows. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

04-12-2012, 01:18 PM	#4
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,230 Thanks: 113 Thanked 703 Times in 365 Posts	Vlim is correct. "Originally, Sgt. Alvin York used his M1911 sidearm while taking cover in a crater, gunned down six Germans with his M1911 pistol, firing back to front like he hunted turkeys but M1911 Pistols were difficult to covert to blanks at the time of filming so they simply had Cooper liberate Luger P08 off of a dead German soldier. Cooper having met York initially refused to shoot the scene with the Luger, but was told because of timing they needed to shoot the scene with the weapon, and was promised they'd re-shoot the scene with the M1911, but this never happened." http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Sergeant_York __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

04-12-2012, 02:03 PM	#5
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Very cool clarifications, gentlemen. Glad I didn't run out and buy a fake! LOL __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

04-12-2012, 07:45 PM	#6
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,901 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Gary, That's quite a Website. This page: http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Luger_P08 lists all the "appearances" of the Luger P.08! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

04-12-2012, 01:08 PM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,048 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,951 Times in 1,199 Posts	I believe that claim is the result of a movie made many, many years ago. They had problems getting a blank-firing 1911 to work, so they substituted it with a luger in the movie. I guess that image stuck

04-12-2012, 08:26 PM	#7
CavScoutEurope User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 86 Thanks: 102 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts	Did you guys know that York wasn't carrying a M1903 Springfield rifle, but a M1917 American Enfield Rifle?

04-12-2012, 09:11 PM	#8
GySgt1811 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Southern Indiana Posts: 237 Thanks: 1,238 Thanked 126 Times in 84 Posts	CavScout, I've heard before that his weapon was not an '03; but, - and I don't know, just asking - was it an Enfield or a M1917 Remington? In any case, great hero, great story, and Mr. Cooper did a great job in the movie. Regards, John

04-12-2012, 09:27 PM	#9
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	I was just watching a TV program this morning on the History Channel called "10 Greatest Shootouts". It was hosted by Will from "Sons of Guns" and Rich from "American Guns". Pretty interesting,they talked about the Sgt York story. I think they claimed he used a Springfield till he ran out of ammo and then switched to the 1911. The info I thought was fascinating was about the "Little Bohemia" shootout. This was between the Dillinger gang and the FBI in the 1930's. They where claiming that "Baby Faced Nelson" used a Colt 1911 pistol that had been converted to a submachine gun! It had a Thompson fore grip attached with a 30 round mag. Nelson was one bad dude! I also liked the segment about "Bonnie and Clyde" Clyde had bobbed his BAR's and used to wear them under his long coat hanging from a shoulder strap. I saw one of these guns at a "Bonnie and Clyde" museum display in San Diego awhile back. Will and Rich claimed this weapon was the reason they escaped from a trap the police had set for them at a motel. They even shot up a armored car to get away! At that same display they also had the Ford"Death Car" that they both died in. Not a pretty sight, it looked like it had been used for a machine gun demo at a SOF convention. Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

04-12-2012, 10:20 PM	#10
padredan User Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: louisiana Now, but from the Rebublic of Texas Posts: 937 Thanks: 429 Thanked 316 Times in 182 Posts	that bonnie and clyde shoot out was in Joplin Mo. I now live about an hour from the bonnie and clyde ambush site, near gibsland La. . I have visted it an there is just a small marker on the site stating that bonnie and clyde were killed there. They were just small time crooks robbing gas stations and small grocery stores for the most part. never ever scoring much more that a few hundred dollars . Still the were one of texas most sought after murders. Any one in law enforcement , especialy texas dps knew about the parker barrow gang. Years ago i had some dealings with some of the barrow decendents, i will just say they have not changed much over the years. There are several fakes of the ford death car, the certified original is at the texas ranger musem in waco texas, I did get a look at the death certificate on them both, it reads "found in car dead" about as simple as it gets. __________________ In this world nothing is free, except the grace of God

04-12-2012, 11:03 PM	#11
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,230 Thanks: 113 Thanked 703 Times in 365 Posts	I don't think it would have mattered which one he used it would still have been a bad day for the Hun. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary