Transition from wood base to aluminum base mags?

themilitariadealers · 12-21-2011, 04:47 PM

Can anyone tell me what year the transition started from a wooden base to the magazine to aluminium. I have 1936 dated S/42 which came with both a very nice nickel wood base magazine and an fxo aluminium. Is the wood base appropriate?

Also, were these guns issued with a holster of similar date or was it common for them to be matched with older examples. I have one dated 1911 with later Weimar alterations. Many thanks

lugerholsterrepair · 12-21-2011, 05:15 PM

Simon, It was sometime during the Weimar era. I sispect around the early 1920's. I believe Simson may have been the first to make some but certainly by 1926 the Aluminum magazine was in effect.

Your pistol sounds like a Ploice with the 2 different mags. Is it a Police pistol?

What is the configuration of your holster? Army or Army converted to Police? Is it serialed to the pistol?

later Weimar alterations? What are these?

themilitariadealers · 12-21-2011, 05:47 PM

Hi Jerry, many thanks for the swift reply. The gun is an early British deactivation. Sad I know but the only way we can now own these in the UK. At least I suppose it saved them from the crusher.

I grew up in British Channel Islands in 50's and 60's when no kid was anyone without a luger in the post German Occupation years...they were everywhere. Buying this is a trip down memory lane for me but I have forgotten most of what I knew, so any information would be appreciated.

It hadn't crossed my mind that it might be a Police model and I would also be interested to know if it's been re blued or not.

I did put some images on the forum for help with the regimental markings and the forum members suggested that some of the markings might have been Weimar period.

Best regards,

Simon

themilitariadealers · 12-21-2011, 05:49 PM

Sorry Jerry, I should have added that the serial number of the gun is 8923.

Norme · 12-21-2011, 06:08 PM

Hi Simon, Neither magazine is correct for the gun. The wood based one is too early, and the fxo type is too late. The correct magazine, called an Army Type 2 by collectors, would be made of folded and crimped blued sheet steel, and the aluminum base would be stamped with a droop eagle/63 inspection mark. Both the gun and holster look very nice, by the way. Regards, Norm

themilitariadealers · 12-21-2011, 06:13 PM

Many thanks Norm, I appreciate your help. Kind regards, Simon

sheepherder · 12-21-2011, 06:33 PM

Norme, I find it odd that the German weapons industry would still be making Luger bottoms out of aluminum late in the war [comparatively late], when raw materials were scarce...Why didn't they go back to wood and leave the aluminum to the aircraft industry???

lugerholsterrepair · 12-21-2011, 06:37 PM

Simon..The holster was an Army..converted to Police. Are either of the magazines numbered to the holster?

The pistol is not Police but rather Army from what I can see and Norm is correct..neither mag is correct for the pistol but may belong to the holster.
Can you show good photo's of the bottom of the magazines and perhaps the story will unfold a little more.

Doug..at the time aluminum magazine bottoms were developed aluminum was not scarce. Aluminum was far superior to wood and once the change was implemented there was no going back. Plastic was used later maybe for the reason you mention..the value of aluminum.

Edward Tinker · 12-21-2011, 06:44 PM

they were short on wood because of rifle stocks

at least that is what I have always heard

Simson was using aluminum several years before other folks (DWM) and there is a date when everyone was supposed to go from wood to aluminum... I'd have to look it up

Norme · 12-21-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Norme, I find it odd that the German weapons industry would still be making Luger bottoms out of aluminum late in the war [comparatively late], when raw materials were scarce...Why didn't they go back to wood and leave the aluminum to the aircraft industry???

Hi Rich, Dr Sturgess in "Pistole Parabellum", which I'm too lazy to dig out so I have to quote from memory, says that the switch from aluminum to plastic in 1941, was for the reason you state. The good Doctor has calculated that if you add up the weight of 250,000 aluminum mag bases (Mauser was making about 125,000 Lugers per year), it comes to two tons, enough to make two medium bombers! Regards, Norm

FNorm · 12-22-2011, 11:14 AM

"I find it odd that the German weapons industry would still be making Luger bottoms out of aluminum late in the war [comparatively late], when raw materials were scarce..."

Maybe they were recycling B-17s?

FN

Vlim · 12-22-2011, 11:37 AM

The fact that Germany made use of Aluminum so much had a simple reason: They had access to the material. They had problems obtaining other metals (and even wood), so using the material that was easiest to obtain made sense.

'' Fortuntately " for DWM and Mauser, the Dürener Metallwerke, main supplier of Aluminum, were part of the same conglomerate.

FNorm · 12-22-2011, 12:03 PM

I know, later in the war, the fighter drop tanks were a form of paper mache.

FN

lugerholsterrepair · 12-22-2011, 01:16 PM

The British had a nationwide program during the war to collect downed aircraft to salvage metal for construction of new fighters. A lot of German planes were made into British ones!

12-21-2011, 04:47 PM	#1
themilitariadealers User Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: UK Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Transition from wood base to aluminum base mags? Can anyone tell me what year the transition started from a wooden base to the magazine to aluminium. I have 1936 dated S/42 which came with both a very nice nickel wood base magazine and an fxo aluminium. Is the wood base appropriate? Also, were these guns issued with a holster of similar date or was it common for them to be matched with older examples. I have one dated 1911 with later Weimar alterations. Many thanks

12-21-2011, 05:15 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,132 Times in 1,439 Posts	Simon, It was sometime during the Weimar era. I sispect around the early 1920's. I believe Simson may have been the first to make some but certainly by 1926 the Aluminum magazine was in effect. Your pistol sounds like a Ploice with the 2 different mags. Is it a Police pistol? What is the configuration of your holster? Army or Army converted to Police? Is it serialed to the pistol? later Weimar alterations? What are these? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-21-2011, 05:47 PM	#3
themilitariadealers User Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: UK Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Jerry, many thanks for the swift reply. The gun is an early British deactivation. Sad I know but the only way we can now own these in the UK. At least I suppose it saved them from the crusher. I grew up in British Channel Islands in 50's and 60's when no kid was anyone without a luger in the post German Occupation years...they were everywhere. Buying this is a trip down memory lane for me but I have forgotten most of what I knew, so any information would be appreciated. It hadn't crossed my mind that it might be a Police model and I would also be interested to know if it's been re blued or not. I did put some images on the forum for help with the regimental markings and the forum members suggested that some of the markings might have been Weimar period. Best regards, Simon Attached Thumbnails

12-21-2011, 06:33 PM	#7
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,190 Thanks: 1,407 Thanked 4,458 Times in 2,334 Posts	Norme, I find it odd that the German weapons industry would still be making Luger bottoms out of aluminum late in the war [comparatively late], when raw materials were scarce...Why didn't they go back to wood and leave the aluminum to the aircraft industry??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

12-21-2011, 06:37 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,132 Times in 1,439 Posts	Simon..The holster was an Army..converted to Police. Are either of the magazines numbered to the holster? The pistol is not Police but rather Army from what I can see and Norm is correct..neither mag is correct for the pistol but may belong to the holster. Can you show good photo's of the bottom of the magazines and perhaps the story will unfold a little more. Doug..at the time aluminum magazine bottoms were developed aluminum was not scarce. Aluminum was far superior to wood and once the change was implemented there was no going back. Plastic was used later maybe for the reason you mention..the value of aluminum. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-21-2011, 05:49 PM	#4
themilitariadealers User Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: UK Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry Jerry, I should have added that the serial number of the gun is 8923.

12-21-2011, 06:08 PM	#5
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Simon, Neither magazine is correct for the gun. The wood based one is too early, and the fxo type is too late. The correct magazine, called an Army Type 2 by collectors, would be made of folded and crimped blued sheet steel, and the aluminum base would be stamped with a droop eagle/63 inspection mark. Both the gun and holster look very nice, by the way. Regards, Norm

12-21-2011, 06:13 PM	#6
themilitariadealers User Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: UK Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many thanks Norm, I appreciate your help. Kind regards, Simon

12-21-2011, 06:44 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,956 Thanks: 2,057 Thanked 4,575 Times in 2,111 Posts	they were short on wood because of rifle stocks at least that is what I have always heard Simson was using aluminum several years before other folks (DWM) and there is a date when everyone was supposed to go from wood to aluminum... I'd have to look it up

12-22-2011, 11:14 AM	#11
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	"I find it odd that the German weapons industry would still be making Luger bottoms out of aluminum late in the war [comparatively late], when raw materials were scarce..." Maybe they were recycling B-17s? FN

12-22-2011, 11:37 AM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	The fact that Germany made use of Aluminum so much had a simple reason: They had access to the material. They had problems obtaining other metals (and even wood), so using the material that was easiest to obtain made sense. '' Fortuntately " for DWM and Mauser, the Dürener Metallwerke, main supplier of Aluminum, were part of the same conglomerate.

12-22-2011, 12:03 PM	#13
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	I know, later in the war, the fighter drop tanks were a form of paper mache. FN

12-22-2011, 01:16 PM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,132 Times in 1,439 Posts	The British had a nationwide program during the war to collect downed aircraft to salvage metal for construction of new fighters. A lot of German planes were made into British ones! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."