New to Forum, Hello! and questions

TRG · 09-02-2011, 02:34 AM

Hello All,

First, let me say I am glad there is a forum such as this one where it seems there are many great sources of information. I look forward to getting to know u all.

a little story:
My father used to have a DWM luger. It was really beautiful and I remember it fondly from when I was a young boy. If I remember correctly it was 1916-1918 vintage. I have many fond memories of holding it, taking it apart to clean it, and shoot it with my Dad. I was always fascinated with its unique design...

Sadly, the pistol was stolen, along with many of our other guns, when I was 13. I have always missed that one pistol over all the others. I had hoped to inherit it one day.

Now that I am in my 30's and in a position financially to "replace" it I would certainly like to do so. The problem is I dont really know where to start- I know next to nothing about the history/value of these guns and I certainly dont want to get taken.

Ideally, I would like to find a DWM luger from a similar time frame. Could be newer-I'm trying not to be too picky but I'd like to find a matching numbers gun that is in good to very good condition.

In a nutshell, my hope is that one or more of the more knowledgeable among you might take me under their wing(s) and explain what to look for, maybe even where to look. Any information would really be appreciated.

Please forgive me if this post is in the wrong place, or I have somehow run afoul of the forum rules.

Thank you very much. I really hope to be able to hold another of these fantastic pistols again soon.

Respectfully,

Aaron

Edward Tinker · 09-02-2011, 03:50 AM

Aaron, welcome to the forum, it would help if folks knew at least what state you were in.

There are literally thousands of lugers to buy on any given day, to a new guy, who might go to even a large gun show in say, Denver, you might see 4-10 guns and half or more of those would be one seller.

The point is, since you had a liking for a DWM in the WW1 period, then I would look for one to replace it, many to be had.

Read here, figure out what it is that you want, era, type, etc and decide if you are willing to make compromises in it for price, reblued, restored, parts mismatched, 80% condition, 95% + starts to be collectable and therefor more expensive.

If you are going to shoot it, then consider a low end collector or mismatch, because you break a part and your collectable piece now bccomes a shooter (to most collectors)

Ed

TRG · 09-04-2011, 05:01 PM

Thanks for the welcome, Ed.
I'm in Upstate NY.

It just so happens that a very nice gentleman, and forum member contacted me and offered one of the DWM's in his collection. It seems he is asking a fair price and the Luger is in wonderful shape. I think I will take him up on his offer. I cannot wait to hold one in my hands again. It has been a long time...

Edit: I just noticed that you are in Iraq at the moment. I wish you luck and a safe return.

-Aaron

mrerick · 09-05-2011, 10:48 AM

Aaron,

Many things impact the price and value of a Luger. While photographs can help with evaluation of a pistol, you can only judge one in person.

Estimating a "fair" price for a Luger is impossible without seeing it, and difficult from pictures.

Luger collectors highly value a pistol as close as possible to it's original state as it left the factory. This can be a different approach than other collectible guns.

If your seller will permit it, and you post pictures and the asking price, you are likely to get a range of well informed opinions here.

With that said, I've met many responsible, helpful and trustworthy collectors on this forum.

One warning... ONE Luger rarely turns out to be enough Lugers... Cheers!

Marc

TRG · 09-05-2011, 05:14 PM

Thank you Marc.

I have done a fair amount of shopping for price vs. condition online, and in gun shops here in upstate NY. Most of the Lugers I have seen in the shops have been pretty rough, and pricey. On the web I have seen many more but obviously you are right in that it is impossible to judge the quality with 100% certainty.

I'm not sure that the Gentleman who contacted me would like me to post his name but I will say that after corresponding by email and more than an hour on the telephone, he struck me as completely trustworthy and honest about the condition of his Lugers for sale, and the reason for selling them. I received some very detailed pictures and all of the guns are in very nice condition.

I am trying to decide between a 1915 and 1917 DWM. Both are #'s matching, both are 95% plus condition and the wooden grips are beautiful and free from chips, cracks.

If anyone who is familiar with these two years of production can give me a hint as to which i should choose (assuming equal condition) I would certainly appreciate it.

I have a good feeling about this potential purchase. I certainly hope my intuition is not leading me astray.

As far as multiple Lugers go, I think I'll be ok. My collection is on the small side and is mostly WWII firearms, as well as a few "modern" pistols for concealed carry. The only gun I have two or more of is the 1911. One from WWII and a brand new Dan Wesson V-Bob commander I recently purchased for CCW.

Once I have made a decision and received the Luger I'll make sure to post some pictures. Then I suppose you can tell me how I did

Thanks!

Aaron

TRG · 09-26-2011, 01:55 AM

Hey All,

After all the transfer stuff, paperwork and more paperwork I have taken possession of a 1915 DWM Luger. Its in beautiful condition and I am beyond stoked.

So...

I'm sure that this question has been asked a million times over the years but here we go again:

Where can I hope to find any information about this particular gun. Serial number look up, manufacturing history, etc., etc. ?

Cheers!

Edward Tinker · 09-26-2011, 08:00 AM

You can't look up a 'specific' gun. a few questions like this have been asked, in fact, recently by Eric

Do a forum search specifically on 1915 DWM, buy Central Powers by Jan C. Still, read the FAQ here and other items.

Unless unit marked (most weren't) it makes it difficult to trace the history of a particular luger.

ed

mrerick · 09-26-2011, 11:02 AM

Aaron, congratulations on your new Luger! I used to live in NY, and know what you just went through on purchase registration and delays, so it's double good to have it in hand!

There are good references that discuss the history of the Luger. The collector references are fairly expensive (these are the books with extensive photographic coverage of all the variations and markings). There are some less expensive books that have pretty good information about the origins and development of the Luger from before WW-I; through end of military manufacture during WW-II and commercial manufacture after that.

"The Luger Story" by John Walter is a nice initial reference. So is Fred Datig's book "The Luger Pistol".

Walter's book was published in 1995 by Greenhill Books in London and Stackpole Books in the USA. If it isn't available new, check for a copy used through Amazon or Abe Books. They should be about $50.

Fred Datig's book was published in 1955 with printings through at least 1962 (my copy). Again, check for used copies. Again, checking around you should be able to find a used copy at around $50.

Both books have inaccuracies and lack information that was discovered after their publication. They are excellent overviews of the development of the Luger.

Collector identification books like Charles Kenyon's "Lugers at Random", Jan Still's extensive series of books, Gibson's "Krieghoff Parabellum", Ed Tinker's "Simson Lugers", Hallock and van de Kant's "The Mauser Parabellum", Baudino and van Vlimmeren's "The Parabellum is Back" and Bobba's (Swiss) "Parabellum (among others) are all detailed photographic and factual overviews of Luger variations.

They constitute the texts of what I call "Luger University". If you are going to collect Lugers, you have to study and master the details covered in these volumes. They are the references that help you know what's "right" in a collectible Luger.

If you go on to collect Lugers, you'll find that "Luger University" is much less expensive than making mistakes buying Lugers from uninformed but profit oriented sellers at Gun Shows, etc...

BTW, considering what the collector reference books cost, I have this ongoing fantasy of stopping by GoodWill some day and finding that someone has cleared out a collection of "those old gun books"...

Cheers!

Marc

TRG · 09-27-2011, 12:32 AM

Thanks for the extensive responses. They all sound like great resources. I'm not really going to collect Lugers though. I am curious to know about this specific pistol. I'm sure that it would be next to impossible to get any specific information about it. It is not marked with any regiment/police bureau info, nor does it have any import marks or anything else.

Holding the gun in my hand yesterday had me thinking of all the people who have owned, or held, this pistol. It is mind boggling to me. I wish I knew half of its history.

Anyway, I took it to the range today and shot two magazines through it. All I can say is "like butter".

Cheers!

09-02-2011, 02:34 AM	#1
TRG User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	New to Forum, Hello! and questions Hello All, First, let me say I am glad there is a forum such as this one where it seems there are many great sources of information. I look forward to getting to know u all. a little story: My father used to have a DWM luger. It was really beautiful and I remember it fondly from when I was a young boy. If I remember correctly it was 1916-1918 vintage. I have many fond memories of holding it, taking it apart to clean it, and shoot it with my Dad. I was always fascinated with its unique design... Sadly, the pistol was stolen, along with many of our other guns, when I was 13. I have always missed that one pistol over all the others. I had hoped to inherit it one day. Now that I am in my 30's and in a position financially to "replace" it I would certainly like to do so. The problem is I dont really know where to start- I know next to nothing about the history/value of these guns and I certainly dont want to get taken. Ideally, I would like to find a DWM luger from a similar time frame. Could be newer-I'm trying not to be too picky but I'd like to find a matching numbers gun that is in good to very good condition. In a nutshell, my hope is that one or more of the more knowledgeable among you might take me under their wing(s) and explain what to look for, maybe even where to look. Any information would really be appreciated. Please forgive me if this post is in the wrong place, or I have somehow run afoul of the forum rules. Thank you very much. I really hope to be able to hold another of these fantastic pistols again soon. Respectfully, Aaron

09-02-2011, 03:50 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Aaron, welcome to the forum, it would help if folks knew at least what state you were in. There are literally thousands of lugers to buy on any given day, to a new guy, who might go to even a large gun show in say, Denver, you might see 4-10 guns and half or more of those would be one seller. The point is, since you had a liking for a DWM in the WW1 period, then I would look for one to replace it, many to be had. Read here, figure out what it is that you want, era, type, etc and decide if you are willing to make compromises in it for price, reblued, restored, parts mismatched, 80% condition, 95% + starts to be collectable and therefor more expensive. If you are going to shoot it, then consider a low end collector or mismatch, because you break a part and your collectable piece now bccomes a shooter (to most collectors) Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-05-2011, 10:48 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Aaron, Many things impact the price and value of a Luger. While photographs can help with evaluation of a pistol, you can only judge one in person. Estimating a "fair" price for a Luger is impossible without seeing it, and difficult from pictures. Luger collectors highly value a pistol as close as possible to it's original state as it left the factory. This can be a different approach than other collectible guns. If your seller will permit it, and you post pictures and the asking price, you are likely to get a range of well informed opinions here. With that said, I've met many responsible, helpful and trustworthy collectors on this forum. One warning... ONE Luger rarely turns out to be enough Lugers... Cheers! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-26-2011, 08:00 AM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	You can't look up a 'specific' gun. a few questions like this have been asked, in fact, recently by Eric Do a forum search specifically on 1915 DWM, buy Central Powers by Jan C. Still, read the FAQ here and other items. Unless unit marked (most weren't) it makes it difficult to trace the history of a particular luger. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-26-2011, 11:02 AM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Aaron, congratulations on your new Luger! I used to live in NY, and know what you just went through on purchase registration and delays, so it's double good to have it in hand! There are good references that discuss the history of the Luger. The collector references are fairly expensive (these are the books with extensive photographic coverage of all the variations and markings). There are some less expensive books that have pretty good information about the origins and development of the Luger from before WW-I; through end of military manufacture during WW-II and commercial manufacture after that. "The Luger Story" by John Walter is a nice initial reference. So is Fred Datig's book "The Luger Pistol". Walter's book was published in 1995 by Greenhill Books in London and Stackpole Books in the USA. If it isn't available new, check for a copy used through Amazon or Abe Books. They should be about $50. Fred Datig's book was published in 1955 with printings through at least 1962 (my copy). Again, check for used copies. Again, checking around you should be able to find a used copy at around $50. Both books have inaccuracies and lack information that was discovered after their publication. They are excellent overviews of the development of the Luger. Collector identification books like Charles Kenyon's "Lugers at Random", Jan Still's extensive series of books, Gibson's "Krieghoff Parabellum", Ed Tinker's "Simson Lugers", Hallock and van de Kant's "The Mauser Parabellum", Baudino and van Vlimmeren's "The Parabellum is Back" and Bobba's (Swiss) "Parabellum (among others) are all detailed photographic and factual overviews of Luger variations. They constitute the texts of what I call "Luger University". If you are going to collect Lugers, you have to study and master the details covered in these volumes. They are the references that help you know what's "right" in a collectible Luger. If you go on to collect Lugers, you'll find that "Luger University" is much less expensive than making mistakes buying Lugers from uninformed but profit oriented sellers at Gun Shows, etc... BTW, considering what the collector reference books cost, I have this ongoing fantasy of stopping by GoodWill some day and finding that someone has cleared out a collection of "those old gun books"... Cheers! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-04-2011, 05:01 PM	#3
TRG User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the welcome, Ed. I'm in Upstate NY. It just so happens that a very nice gentleman, and forum member contacted me and offered one of the DWM's in his collection. It seems he is asking a fair price and the Luger is in wonderful shape. I think I will take him up on his offer. I cannot wait to hold one in my hands again. It has been a long time... Edit: I just noticed that you are in Iraq at the moment. I wish you luck and a safe return. -Aaron

09-05-2011, 05:14 PM	#5
TRG User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you Marc. I have done a fair amount of shopping for price vs. condition online, and in gun shops here in upstate NY. Most of the Lugers I have seen in the shops have been pretty rough, and pricey. On the web I have seen many more but obviously you are right in that it is impossible to judge the quality with 100% certainty. I'm not sure that the Gentleman who contacted me would like me to post his name but I will say that after corresponding by email and more than an hour on the telephone, he struck me as completely trustworthy and honest about the condition of his Lugers for sale, and the reason for selling them. I received some very detailed pictures and all of the guns are in very nice condition. I am trying to decide between a 1915 and 1917 DWM. Both are #'s matching, both are 95% plus condition and the wooden grips are beautiful and free from chips, cracks. If anyone who is familiar with these two years of production can give me a hint as to which i should choose (assuming equal condition) I would certainly appreciate it. I have a good feeling about this potential purchase. I certainly hope my intuition is not leading me astray. As far as multiple Lugers go, I think I'll be ok. My collection is on the small side and is mostly WWII firearms, as well as a few "modern" pistols for concealed carry. The only gun I have two or more of is the 1911. One from WWII and a brand new Dan Wesson V-Bob commander I recently purchased for CCW. Once I have made a decision and received the Luger I'll make sure to post some pictures. Then I suppose you can tell me how I did Thanks! Aaron

09-26-2011, 01:55 AM	#6
TRG User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey All, After all the transfer stuff, paperwork and more paperwork I have taken possession of a 1915 DWM Luger. Its in beautiful condition and I am beyond stoked. So... I'm sure that this question has been asked a million times over the years but here we go again: Where can I hope to find any information about this particular gun. Serial number look up, manufacturing history, etc., etc. ? Cheers!

09-27-2011, 12:32 AM	#9
TRG User Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the extensive responses. They all sound like great resources. I'm not really going to collect Lugers though. I am curious to know about this specific pistol. I'm sure that it would be next to impossible to get any specific information about it. It is not marked with any regiment/police bureau info, nor does it have any import marks or anything else. Holding the gun in my hand yesterday had me thinking of all the people who have owned, or held, this pistol. It is mind boggling to me. I wish I knew half of its history. Anyway, I took it to the range today and shot two magazines through it. All I can say is "like butter". Cheers!