Can you ID these proof marks?

Olle · 07-17-2011, 11:39 AM

Found a proof mark I can't identify, it's a crown over "CFG"on a Galand revolver that also has a Belgian "ELG" proof mark... I believe I have seen it before on an English gun, but I'm not sure. There's also some kind of symbol stamped on the cylinder. Does anybody know what these stamps mean?

Patronen · 07-17-2011, 12:44 PM

I believe the crown C.F.G. mark is a C.F. Galand proof as well and according to my reference it says that mark is on the left side of the barrel. I can't help with the cyl. marking but will keep looking over my references if no one else chimes in.-Dave

Olle · 07-17-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patronen

I believe the crown C.F.G. mark is a C.F. Galand proof as well and according to my reference it says that mark is on the left side of the barrel. I can't help with the cyl. marking but will keep looking over my references if no one else chimes in.-Dave

Yep, the CFG stamp is on the left side of the barrel, right in front of the cylinder. They were made in France, Belgium and England, so I assume that this one is made in Belgium. Would also be interesting to know what the peculiar stamp on the cylinder means.

I bought it on impulse and I don't know much about it, so any information on history and value will be appreciated. From what I gather, this is a 7mm small frame "Baby" Galand, and supposedly pretty rare compared with other Galand revolvers.

sheepherder · 07-17-2011, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

I bought it on impulse and I don't know much about it, so any information on history and value will be appreciated.

I have a couple scans of pages from one of Ian Hogg's books...Give me an email address & I'll send them out...A brief history; no mention of the 'baby'...

Olle · 07-17-2011, 08:43 PM

PM sent.

sheepherder · 07-17-2011, 09:42 PM

Scans sent.

Scans were too big to post; zipped file too big also. Resizing them to 1100 pixels/197kb made them unreadable.

Olle · 07-20-2011, 09:43 AM

Still no takers on the hieroglyph on the cylinder...?

This gun is probably more obscure than I first thought, haven't been able to find much info at all.

sheepherder · 07-20-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

This gun is probably more obscure than I first thought, haven't been able to find much info at all.

Definitely a collectible; and since few books mention the 'baby', probably quite rare...

Finding a Galand Collector's web site is a problem...Some for sale...Some discussion...

http://www.collectorfirearms.org/web...un/hg-1807.htm

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...-revovler-info

http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/a... galand gb.htm

(Last URL is most informative)

Patronen · 07-20-2011, 10:35 AM

I am not an expert on Galands, but looking closer at the crown CFG marking and the way the ELG with star in the oval is stamped compared to the illustrations I have in my reference books there are slight differences. The crown on your gun is not as full and there is not a third period after the G on the CFG marking on your gun and theres the unknown cyl. mark . The Revolver seems to be of quality built but I wonder if it may be a good copy.

lew1 · 07-20-2011, 11:13 AM

The 'ELG with star in the oval' is a required Belgian commercial proof.

See the similar marking on one of my Hi Powers.

Olle · 07-20-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patronen

I am not an expert on Galands, but looking closer at the crown CFG marking and the way the ELG with star in the oval is stamped compared to the illustrations I have in my reference books there are slight differences. The crown on your gun is not as full and there is not a third period after the G on the CFG marking on your gun and theres the unknown cyl. mark . The Revolver seems to be of quality built but I wonder if it may be a good copy.

I haven't found any good pictures of other CFG-stamps, so I can't say much about the missing period. The ELG stamp looks perfectly legit though, it came in a few varieties and this one should be correct for the era. The crowns on the CFG and the inspector's stamp are faint, but they appear to just be struck a bit uneven.

It could still be a copy, but who would make a copy of a revolver like this? There were revolvers that were easier to copy for those who produced know-offs at the time, and I don't think it would be worth the effort to produce a copy to pass off as an antique either.

Patronen · 07-20-2011, 01:43 PM

What I am comparing your gun too is illustrations in a reference book. Other examples of the revolver would be the best way for comparing the stamps. I'll try later to get some pics of the illustrations uploaded later for you to see. That's a good question as to who would copy a Galland. I am not sure if your gun is or not, it seems to be a quality product and usually copys tend to be rough looking in some way or another with regards to manufacture. It's the cyl. marking that looks strange to me. It may be some in house Galland manufacturer stamp etc. But the only thing I have seen that looks remotely like that mark is the Nepalese writing on my Martini-Henry from Nepal.

Olle · 07-20-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patronen

What I am comparing your gun too is illustrations in a reference book. Other examples of the revolver would be the best way for comparing the stamps. I'll try later to get some pics of the illustrations uploaded later for you to see. That's a good question as to who would copy a Galland. I am not sure if your gun is or not, it seems to be a quality product and usually copys tend to be rough looking in some way or another with regards to manufacture. It's the cyl. marking that looks strange to me. It may be some in house Galland manufacturer stamp etc. But the only thing I have seen that looks remotely like that mark is the Nepalese writing on my Martini-Henry from Nepal.

I'm certainly not an expert on stamps and proof marks, but I'm comparing the ELG stamp with pictures from the internet and can't really find any major differences. Is there anything in particular that you can see?

The strange looking symbol on the cylinder is still a mystery, and it vaguely resembles the export stamp that you'll find as #36 on this page: http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html It's obviously not the same, but I'm wondering if it's an older stamp with a similar purpose. Still, you never know where this revolver has been, it seems like many Galands were made for export and for military contracts, so it's entirely possible that it got this stamp after it left Belgium. Did IMA ever list any revolvers like this in "their big haul" from Nepal?

The quality is very high, everything in this complicated mechanism is very nicely fitted and works flawlessly, and there is none of the crudeness you'll usually find in knock-offs and fakes. Granted, I have never seen a Galand before but if this is a copy, it's safe to say that the quality would rival the original.

Patronen · 07-20-2011, 05:55 PM

Not so much the ELG stamping but more so I was noticing the Crown and the CFG wich I was comparing. With regards to IMA and what they hauled out of Nepal I am not totaly sure. A friend of mine has the book that was written about the haul and it includes pictures of what they took out. I'll see if he will let me borrow it in the near future, he let me look it over in his prescence and I only remember with regards to handguns 2 Broomhandles, I would love to read through it from cover to cover. Here is the illustration from the one book I have the other two references are basically the showing the same.

Olle · 07-20-2011, 07:43 PM

That CFG stamp does look different, but I'm sure that this is due to the manufacturer changing it. I'm thinking about it this way: Replica or not, this is obviously a very nicely made gun. If somebody really made such an effort building a perfect replica, why top it off with a half-ass stamp? I could understand it happening on a crude, Chinese made copy (like those Mauser stamped Browning 1900s you see on Gunbroker now and then), but in this case it just doesn't make any sense at all. I'm not trying to brag it up, but if you had seen this gun in person you would probably agree.

Anyway: I found an e-mail address on one of the sites postino linked to, so I sent some pictures to them for review... Will be interesting to see what they say!

Patronen · 07-20-2011, 07:57 PM

Olle, It will be interesting what they say for sure, someone that has had a few pass through their hands or other examples to compare with is the way and will be a big help to you. -Dave

07-17-2011, 11:39 AM	#1
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Can you ID these proof marks? Found a proof mark I can't identify, it's a crown over "CFG"on a Galand revolver that also has a Belgian "ELG" proof mark... I believe I have seen it before on an English gun, but I'm not sure. There's also some kind of symbol stamped on the cylinder. Does anybody know what these stamps mean? Attached Thumbnails

07-17-2011, 09:42 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,411 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Scans sent. Scans were too big to post; zipped file too big also. Resizing them to 1100 pixels/197kb made them unreadable. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

07-20-2011, 11:13 AM	#10
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	The 'ELG with star in the oval' is a required Belgian commercial proof. See the similar marking on one of my Hi Powers. Attached Thumbnails __________________ charlie

07-20-2011, 05:55 PM	#14
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	Not so much the ELG stamping but more so I was noticing the Crown and the CFG wich I was comparing. With regards to IMA and what they hauled out of Nepal I am not totaly sure. A friend of mine has the book that was written about the haul and it includes pictures of what they took out. I'll see if he will let me borrow it in the near future, he let me look it over in his prescence and I only remember with regards to handguns 2 Broomhandles, I would love to read through it from cover to cover. Here is the illustration from the one book I have the other two references are basically the showing the same. Attached Thumbnails

07-17-2011, 12:44 PM	#2
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	I believe the crown C.F.G. mark is a C.F. Galand proof as well and according to my reference it says that mark is on the left side of the barrel. I can't help with the cyl. marking but will keep looking over my references if no one else chimes in.-Dave

07-17-2011, 08:43 PM	#5
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	PM sent.

07-20-2011, 09:43 AM	#7
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Still no takers on the hieroglyph on the cylinder...? This gun is probably more obscure than I first thought, haven't been able to find much info at all.

07-20-2011, 10:35 AM	#9
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	I am not an expert on Galands, but looking closer at the crown CFG marking and the way the ELG with star in the oval is stamped compared to the illustrations I have in my reference books there are slight differences. The crown on your gun is not as full and there is not a third period after the G on the CFG marking on your gun and theres the unknown cyl. mark . The Revolver seems to be of quality built but I wonder if it may be a good copy.

07-20-2011, 01:43 PM	#12
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	What I am comparing your gun too is illustrations in a reference book. Other examples of the revolver would be the best way for comparing the stamps. I'll try later to get some pics of the illustrations uploaded later for you to see. That's a good question as to who would copy a Galland. I am not sure if your gun is or not, it seems to be a quality product and usually copys tend to be rough looking in some way or another with regards to manufacture. It's the cyl. marking that looks strange to me. It may be some in house Galland manufacturer stamp etc. But the only thing I have seen that looks remotely like that mark is the Nepalese writing on my Martini-Henry from Nepal.

07-20-2011, 07:43 PM	#15
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	That CFG stamp does look different, but I'm sure that this is due to the manufacturer changing it. I'm thinking about it this way: Replica or not, this is obviously a very nicely made gun. If somebody really made such an effort building a perfect replica, why top it off with a half-ass stamp? I could understand it happening on a crude, Chinese made copy (like those Mauser stamped Browning 1900s you see on Gunbroker now and then), but in this case it just doesn't make any sense at all. I'm not trying to brag it up, but if you had seen this gun in person you would probably agree. Anyway: I found an e-mail address on one of the sites postino linked to, so I sent some pictures to them for review... Will be interesting to see what they say!

07-20-2011, 07:57 PM	#16
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	Olle, It will be interesting what they say for sure, someone that has had a few pass through their hands or other examples to compare with is the way and will be a big help to you. -Dave