Ku Luger Question

deepdarkwoodsman · 07-13-2011, 05:38 AM

Hello everyone:

I am in the process of contemplating the purchase of a Ku Luger. While doing some research and comparing several of these online, I came across an interesting gun. It is in the sold section of the pre98 website. Here is the link:

http://shop.pre98.com/product.sc?pro...&categoryId=37

The question I have is regarding the magazine base. It appears to have a Krieghoff proof and not the LA proof seen on other Ku's I have come across. I know that the theory is these guns were assembled by Krieghoff using leftover Mauser parts, but would this be a proper magazine for this gun?

Thanks,

Doug

Vlim · 07-14-2011, 05:04 PM

Recent research seems to indicate that the Kü pistols were delivered with Haenel magazines with black plastic bottoms and the serial number engraved into the bottom. So I'm not sure that this magazine originally came with the gun?

His explanation of 'Kummerer' is complete nonsense, though

MP38 · 11-16-2015, 12:41 PM

Doug,

First off; the link you provided of the Ku luger is a fake. Tons of things wrong with it.

Second, Ku lugers would not have a Krieghoff proofed magazine, nor would they have black plastic bottom mags either.

Matt

George Anderson · 11-16-2015, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP38

Doug,
things wrong with it.

Second, Ku lugers would not have a Krieghoff proofed magazine, nor would they have black plastic bottom mags either.

Matt

KU Lugers were issued with bakelite based Haenel-Schmeisser magazines that were numbered to the weapon.

Oldreb · 11-16-2015, 04:21 PM

Matt, I am interested in the Ku Lugers as well -- would you mind pointing out the problems associated with the Luger in Doug's link so I can better understand what to look for -- Thanks.

Vlim, George Anderson, Matt -- On 11/12/2015 I posted about a Luger that is coming up for auction on the RIA site. It is lot number 1639 and the Luger is Ku 3744. (There is a link to the auction in one of the correspondence post) I would appreciate your comments about my concerns if you will -- Thanks !!

Wayne

tharpo · 11-16-2015, 09:55 PM

Here is what a numbered black plastic bottom fxo magazine looks like.

Sergio Natali · 11-17-2015, 04:51 AM

Wayne

first of all let me congratulate, you've started collecting Lugers only recently and you're already jumping in one of the most enigmatic part of the LUGER world: the Ku Lugers.

If I'm not wrong there's even a some sort of "Ku Lugers club" among the Lugers aficionados.
Let me tell you that I'm not an expert at all, and the very little that I know is that ... nobody seems to have a clear idea about them.
There are several theories like that they were made by Mauser then dispatched to Krieghoff ... or the other way round, or even to another plant to be assembled.
Some experts say that KU LUGERs belonged to a contract for the "Coastal Flying Service" as some Krieghoff LW marks seem to link these enigmatic Lugers to the Luftwaffe, while other experts are asserting that KU means Krieghoff Ulbricht... surely they were not made with leftover parts, still the mystery continues and it looks like a conundrum with no solution.

Best regards.

Oldreb · 11-17-2015, 08:29 AM

Sergio - you are correct I do find the Ku's very interesting !! The mystery surrounding them with a seemingly low production being the main drivers !! I have been trying to learn all I can through Forum post while I continue to assemble my own reference books (not an inexpensive undertaking !!). Pete E. on Jan Still's Board was nice enough to send me several pages of information from Randall Gibson's book which was a big help. I hope to purchase a Ku before too long if a "correct" one can be located !! Trying to apply "known" standards to a "mystery" is certainly compelling to me !!

Best Regards,
Wayne

Lugerdoc · 11-17-2015, 10:11 AM

The one theory not mentioned, is my favorite and supported by the fact that I've owned a couple of KU lugers in the past that had at lease one matching E/2 Kreighoff inspected part. I believe that Mauser sent their remaining parts sets to the Luftwaffe repair depots for assembly using some KH supplied parts as necessary. By 1943 when these parts were sent, the LW was happy to get any pistol for their ground forces (AA batteries, airdrome security, etc), since they had not received any large deliveries of KH made lugers after 1940 and their ground forces were being depleated due to allied bombing. TH

Sergio Natali · 11-17-2015, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldreb

Sergio - you are correct I do find the Ku's very interesting !! The mystery surrounding them with a seemingly low production being the main drivers !! I have been trying to learn all I can through Forum post while I continue to assemble my own reference books (not an inexpensive undertaking !!). Pete E. on Jan Still's Board was nice enough to send me several pages of information from Randall Gibson's book which was a big help. I hope to purchase a Ku before too long if a "correct" one can be located !! Trying to apply "known" standards to a "mystery" is certainly compelling to me !!

Best Regards,
Wayne

If I'm not wrong mainly chapter 9 of Gibson's book deals with KU lugers and just in a rather superficial way I would say.

Vlim · 11-17-2015, 02:27 PM

The Mauser Parabellum book by Joop van de Kant and Don Hallock has an excellent sevtion on the Ku.

Oldreb · 11-17-2015, 09:34 PM

Vlim -- thanks for the information about this book -- I will look for it !!

Wayne

alanint · 11-18-2015, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

The Mauser Parabellum book by Joop van de Kant and Don Hallock has an excellent sevtion on the Ku.

I haven't seen Joop post here in ages. How is he doing?

alanint · 11-18-2015, 08:25 AM

Even toy manufacturer's have gotten into the act!

Sergio Natali · 11-18-2015, 09:45 AM

Around this deep "aura of mystery" that covers Ku LUGERS, many aficionados have created a peculiar interest.

07-13-2011, 05:38 AM	#1
deepdarkwoodsman User Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: North Carolina Posts: 38 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 1 Post	Ku Luger Question Hello everyone: I am in the process of contemplating the purchase of a Ku Luger. While doing some research and comparing several of these online, I came across an interesting gun. It is in the sold section of the pre98 website. Here is the link: http://shop.pre98.com/product.sc?pro...&categoryId=37 The question I have is regarding the magazine base. It appears to have a Krieghoff proof and not the LA proof seen on other Ku's I have come across. I know that the theory is these guns were assembled by Krieghoff using leftover Mauser parts, but would this be a proper magazine for this gun? Thanks, Doug

11-16-2015, 09:55 PM	#6
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 541 Thanks: 116 Thanked 382 Times in 157 Posts	Here is what a numbered black plastic bottom fxo magazine looks like. Attached Thumbnails

11-17-2015, 04:51 AM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Wayne first of all let me congratulate, you've started collecting Lugers only recently and you're already jumping in one of the most enigmatic part of the LUGER world: the Ku Lugers. If I'm not wrong there's even a some sort of "Ku Lugers club" among the Lugers aficionados. Let me tell you that I'm not an expert at all, and the very little that I know is that ... nobody seems to have a clear idea about them. There are several theories like that they were made by Mauser then dispatched to Krieghoff ... or the other way round, or even to another plant to be assembled. Some experts say that KU LUGERs belonged to a contract for the "Coastal Flying Service" as some Krieghoff LW marks seem to link these enigmatic Lugers to the Luftwaffe, while other experts are asserting that KU means Krieghoff Ulbricht... surely they were not made with leftover parts, still the mystery continues and it looks like a conundrum with no solution. Best regards. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

11-17-2015, 10:11 AM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	The one theory not mentioned, is my favorite and supported by the fact that I've owned a couple of KU lugers in the past that had at lease one matching E/2 Kreighoff inspected part. I believe that Mauser sent their remaining parts sets to the Luftwaffe repair depots for assembly using some KH supplied parts as necessary. By 1943 when these parts were sent, the LW was happy to get any pistol for their ground forces (AA batteries, airdrome security, etc), since they had not received any large deliveries of KH made lugers after 1940 and their ground forces were being depleated due to allied bombing. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-18-2015, 08:25 AM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Even toy manufacturer's have gotten into the act! Attached Images

07-14-2011, 05:04 PM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Recent research seems to indicate that the Kü pistols were delivered with Haenel magazines with black plastic bottoms and the serial number engraved into the bottom. So I'm not sure that this magazine originally came with the gun? His explanation of 'Kummerer' is complete nonsense, though

11-16-2015, 12:41 PM	#3
MP38 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 464 Thanks: 36 Thanked 113 Times in 60 Posts	Doug, First off; the link you provided of the Ku luger is a fake. Tons of things wrong with it. Second, Ku lugers would not have a Krieghoff proofed magazine, nor would they have black plastic bottom mags either. Matt

11-16-2015, 04:21 PM	#5
Oldreb User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 83 Thanks: 160 Thanked 25 Times in 10 Posts	Matt, I am interested in the Ku Lugers as well -- would you mind pointing out the problems associated with the Luger in Doug's link so I can better understand what to look for -- Thanks. Vlim, George Anderson, Matt -- On 11/12/2015 I posted about a Luger that is coming up for auction on the RIA site. It is lot number 1639 and the Luger is Ku 3744. (There is a link to the auction in one of the correspondence post) I would appreciate your comments about my concerns if you will -- Thanks !! Wayne

11-17-2015, 08:29 AM	#8
Oldreb User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 83 Thanks: 160 Thanked 25 Times in 10 Posts	Sergio - you are correct I do find the Ku's very interesting !! The mystery surrounding them with a seemingly low production being the main drivers !! I have been trying to learn all I can through Forum post while I continue to assemble my own reference books (not an inexpensive undertaking !!). Pete E. on Jan Still's Board was nice enough to send me several pages of information from Randall Gibson's book which was a big help. I hope to purchase a Ku before too long if a "correct" one can be located !! Trying to apply "known" standards to a "mystery" is certainly compelling to me !! Best Regards, Wayne

11-17-2015, 02:27 PM	#11
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	The Mauser Parabellum book by Joop van de Kant and Don Hallock has an excellent sevtion on the Ku.

11-17-2015, 09:34 PM	#12
Oldreb User Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: South Carolina Posts: 83 Thanks: 160 Thanked 25 Times in 10 Posts	Vlim -- thanks for the information about this book -- I will look for it !! Wayne

11-18-2015, 09:45 AM	#15
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Around this deep "aura of mystery" that covers Ku LUGERS, many aficionados have created a peculiar interest. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.