desert island books

[ithacaartist]

Someone here said "Buy books, then guns."
If I don't hustle my buns, my actions may run counter to this excellent advice! I'm fishing for consensus about which, say 3, Luger books would be the best to have if you were on a desert island. Or maybe 4 would be necessary for a relatively effective personal reference collection. Function? History? Variations?

Who has nominations?

[Norme]

Hi David, The two books I reach for the most are "Imperial Lugers" and "Third Reich Lugers". Both are by Jan C. Still, are out of print, and expensive. "Central Powers Pistols" also by Mr. Still is, I believe still available from the author. All three are extremely informative and profusely illustrated, both with photos of the guns, but also with contemporary artist's illustrations of the guns in combat situations. Best regards, Norm

[Edward Tinker]

Deciding what era you want to collect and what interests you, makes a huge difference in what kind of books you want.

Due to weight limitations, I brought only about 6 or 7 books here to Iraq. Last year in Saudi, I had all 4 Jan Still books, Mauser by Joop, Don's book on Police, Japanese pistols, Simson Lugers, and 3 or 5 others.

The cheaper books are usually inaccurate.

Under stickies is this question of what is the best reference books, that is a good start to look at and get a feel for it. The search function works well, when you ask the right question, however, the stickies at the top of each forum are a very good start, as is the FAQ.


Ed

[ithacaartist]

Oops, guess I slipped up with PG-13 wording...Please change it to "buns" if possible, and if this is mild enough.
The piggy is, believe it or not, my business logo. When I was a kid, my older half brother Bill, whom I love dearly, would indulge me just about every time I would ask him to draw me a pig. He had a particular style, and after he had let me beg long enough, he'd put together a series of circles, swoops, and x's in about two seconds that looked like a pig. Usually, he'd knit the eyebrows into a V so the pig looked rather stern and cross (perhaps the expression of our admin. when encountering my previous 3-letter word).
In 1985, I started my own business as a subcontractor to construct audio-kinetic sculpture designed by George Rhoads, and I was scratching my head over what to use as a logo. Somewhere along the line, people started turning my last name, Parker, into "Porker"--perhaps ironically so, because at 6' and 170 # I am certainly not a porker! All were ready to advise and suggest what my logo should be; one had mentioned that the pig was the Chinese symbol for good luck in business.
Well, that's how it was decided. I called my brother and asked him for some samples of the pig he used to draw, and he sent me 2 pages full, including the never-before-rendered "side pig". Darned if no individual pig among the two pages worth matched my vision/memory of what I wanted, so I found a head, body and feet belonging to different ones, physically cut, pasted, reduced, expanded all the components until I was satisfied. I had the result incorporated into my letterhead and business cards, even estimate forms. I kept that piggy for 15 years until, in 2000, my brother Bill sent me a graphic from his Schenectady paper advertizing a place called the "Flat Road Diner" and said in his letter, a reference to this, that it should be my new logo. Changing my logo had not been on my mind at all, but I thlught to myself, "Well, maybe Bill is right." After scanning and making the graphic "mine" buy changing the tail to a delightful curl, I substituted the new piggy for the old on my next batch of business papers and cards--and the website, too.
Apologies for stepping over the verbal line, no harm intended, nor with my logo. I don't like being yelled at in red, so I assure you this will never happen again.
Thanks, Ed and Norm, that's what I was after.

[Edward Tinker]

Sorry, sometimes pictures can have more than one meaning.

Thanks for the explanation and my wife keeps telling me that my temper is shorter than it should be.


Ed

[Hugo Borchardt]

I agree. Mr. Still's books are plenty of excellent information and photographs to last until you are rescued or expire on that island!


Clark

[ithacaartist]

Thanks again, gentlemen, for your input.

I can see how settling on an area to collect in is the foundation for what I'd need in reference material. I didn't mean to bug anyone by asking an old FAQ once again without checking them; my intention was to get the freshest info, since there are new books by forum members, I didn't want to miss out. The responses have been helpful in determining what I might do, and they are nowhere as wordy as my request!

I was thinking about it over the weekend and came up with a proposal for myself: I noted just what I'd bid on thru Proxibid last week for an auction that happens towards the end of the month. The bids were based mostly on economics, with an eye to matching part numbers. One was for a Stoeger .22, one for a 1993 Mitchell Arms, one for a P08 that had had the bejeepers engraved out of its outer surfaces, and lastly a unit that had been chromed. None was really hard-core collectible, compared to lots of other Lugers available, though I perceived each to have its own individual charm and appeal.

The Mitchell, well, maybe nobody wants to talk about that one, as I sense the production run's results are regarded as somewhat of a travesty aesthetically and mechanically. I've read about others who have encountered nightmare cases--Failures to feed/fire, spalling of the stainless material on the side toggle ramps, general overall lack of mechanical quality, wavy buffing of sideplates and frame, etc.--or maybe like a few, I'd end up with a sweet, dependable shooter. The ones with engraving or chrome plating may not have bad mechanical issues, and I am not as worried by them. The .22 would be welcomed as the most economical, lightest, and easiest to use for impromptu plinking. I'm also curious how the Stoeger would compare to my Ithaca .22 lever action repeater in form and feel because the rifle"s action was mfd. by Erma Werke, who of course also made Lugers. The M-72 has served me as a rabbit and squirrel gun ever since it was purchased in the Ithaca Gun Co."s employee store. (My ex-wife worked for their service dept. right after graduating college in the early 70's) A 4X scope with 1" tube lets me pin a squirrel thru the ears at 40 yds, good enough for dinner! Helps confirm the M-72's reputation as the world's most accurate .22 repeater of that era. The advertized claim was "one ragged hole" for a group of 5 bench clamped shots.

I wondered if it would be bad at all if I started my minor collecting career with a small family of mutts, mismatched, disfigured, or relatively distant from the origins, like the Mitchell. I'm thinking it would not, because I'd gain experience in shooting, identifying, and addressing possible issues with Lugers. This would lead, rather naturally I think, to finding out just exactly what I'd like to own in the future that could be really correct and nice.

Yes, I'd restore the grip strap of that one we saw recently on this forum that had it ground thru, a proposed result of a heavy hand in unit marking removal.
Yes, I'd try out that re-blued Luger that had its part numbers just about buffed into oblivion.
And when/if the time comes to move on from these, I figure they really can't depreciate if they are already on the bottom of the price barrel!

My bidding strategy has been to examine all the online offerings I could find for auctions and outright 'for sale' stuff, to obtain a fairly reassured sense of what things are selling for, and what they should sell for. I'm avoiding the $1500 shooters, favoring instead those under $1k.
Proxibid has an interesting and informative feature where one can see the selling prices realized by previous auctions, and I feel this has helped me a lot in bidding on upcoming guns. With the hi-lo range put up by the site for each article in mind, I compare formerly realized prices to similar current offerings and have ended up establishing my max bids at around the 75% mark of the range between low and high auctioneer's estimate. The prospect of buying a gun that I've only seen one picture of is a little unnerving, but I figure with this initial approach I would not be burned too badly, worst case.

In the event that the reasoning applied above may, in a way not conceived by me, lead to disaster or disillusionment, please let me know

[Edward Tinker]

The Stoeger 22's ahve a bad reputation and are not the real toggle like action
The mitchel (etc on the names) are okay, but many issues

The 1970's mausers are real lugers and good shooters from what I understand

And many, many shooter lugers can be found for $600-$800 all depending on your luck and looking around.

Ed

[wlyon]

I would stay away from the Stoeger and Mitchell. To many problems and no resale value. My suggestion would be as Ed said, start with a good shooter at a reasonable price. If you start with a bunch of low valued lugers,chromed, Mitchell,Stoeger you will still be spending a good amount of money with not much to show for it. Just one opinion. Bill

[ithacaartist]

Yes, been checking out the Interarms offerings, Ed, ever since reading a bit about their history. The Swiss style frame, and the "Bulgarian" are something I could deal with, though I've always found the straight front strap of the Swiss frame something that looks just wrong. Haven't had a shot at either one yet that was less than $999, but, as you say I'm looking around a lot--and being patient. $600-$800 is also the actual range of my bidding so far--and that's max bids. I'm keeping in mind also what Bill said, that I don't want to dump money into low value stuff I might get stuck with.