What do I have here?

bigbuckeye · 01-17-2011, 09:03 PM

Hello Gentlemen,

I was just given this Luger last night. My Grandfather brought this back with him from WWII. Other than that, I don't know anything about it and I want to learn as much as possible.

Any comments would be apreciated, but I definitely would like to know the following.

Why the double date stamp? Was this originally built in 1914 and then rebuilt in 1920?

Thanks,

bigbuckeye · 01-18-2011, 08:12 AM

Any help at all?

FNorm · 01-18-2011, 08:32 AM

HI MIke,

Welcome to the forum.

You have a 1914 DWM, from WWI, that was restamped during the Weimar era. The 1920 is actually a Reichswehr property stamp, not a re-date. We'd love to see more pics. Especially the acceptance marks on the rt side of the receiver.
FN

Edward Tinker · 01-18-2011, 08:38 AM

Mike, welcome to the forum.

not much more I can say, 1914 would have been at the beginning of WW1...

You are more than welcome to ask any questions; but searching around is fun and the FAQ has a lot of info in it too; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

ed

bigbuckeye · 01-18-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Mike, welcome to the forum.

not much more I can say, 1914 would have been at the beginning of WW1...

You are more than welcome to ask any questions; but searching around is fun and the FAQ has a lot of info in it too; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

ed

Thanks Ed,

I have been searching, but maybe I am not using the right words.

Any idea why the double date stamp?

Edward Tinker · 01-18-2011, 09:15 AM

yes, i do.

the first (oldest) is the date, then in 1920, a lot of weapons were being stolen and resold (rampant unemployment, etc in germany); so the Reichswehr came out with a decree that all military owned weapons (pistols, stocks, all kinds of items) were stamped 1920. So technically it is a property stamp and not a date.

BTW, that approx answer is in the FAQ, the link I gave you

Quote:

#40 What is a double date?

Here is another area that is brought up, especially in the GunShow circuit. Double dates. True double dates are fairly rare, and what most folks call a double date is really a Reichswehr 1920 property stamping. I quote Jan Still quote:The 1920 stamp was added sometime between August 1920 and April 1921. It is a Reichswehr property stamp applied to identify the Luger as German Army property to prevent theft. Civilians were paid a bounty for turning in their unauthorized weapons to be destroyed. The Army feared the theft of its unmarked Lugers for the bounty.(Weimar Lugers page 20-23)

Quote:

See the date is 1917, while the 1920 is NOT a date, but a property stamping.

ed

bigbuckeye · 01-18-2011, 09:25 AM

Thanks, I did not see your link (using a Blackberry)

Edward Tinker · 01-18-2011, 09:26 AM

Its fine, just doing the mod thing of reminding and pointing people to the right place...

Ed

Hugo Borchardt · 01-18-2011, 09:35 AM

Welcome to the forum! Hey - If you were trying to redact the last 2 digits of the serial # in pic 3, those two digits show up on the small parts in the first 2 photos. Nice gun. Congratulations!

Clark

mrerick · 01-18-2011, 09:41 AM

Hi Mike, and welcome to the forum.

I can't see the detail because it's not in focus, but your magazine is not contemporary to the pistol. The aluminum bottom magazines were introduced later, in the early 1930s through 1942, with the Russians/East Germans continuing them after WW-II.

You've got a nice looking Luger that looks to be in its original finish. Keep it that way! If you haven't cleaned and lubricated it, do it now and do it carefully. If you remove the grips, be particularly careful not to chip the left one near the safety lever.

If all the numbers on parts match (4 digits or the last 2 digits) consider not firing it, since breaking a part will considerably reduce it's historic value and interest to collectors - not that you're going to give up your Grandfather's Luger... Check to see if any of his papers can be found - if he received the normal authorization from his unit officer, you'll want to get his "bring back papers" that list this gun's serial number.

In this community, most members don't worry about making serial numbers known - in fact, this often helps some of the studies being done by collectors here.

DWM was the company that Georg Luger worked for when he developed the Parabellum Pistol. They made a good quality product, and your pistol has been part of three eras in Germany. With your Grandfather, you are literally holding history in your hand!

Marc

bigbuckeye · 01-18-2011, 10:21 AM

Thank you,

The number 48 is stamped on all of the parts that I have been able to find, so I have to believe it has all matching pieces.

I am going to clean it when I get back home and examine the grips to see if I can get them tighten up using the "O" ring method.

I don't plan on shooting it...

bigbuckeye · 01-18-2011, 10:10 PM

I know for a fact that it was brought back with him from WWII, along with some grenades, a Nazi Helmet and a K98(since stolen)

Why would the import stamp make this more unlikely?

Also,

The markings below, any ideas?

bigbuckeye · 01-19-2011, 12:41 AM

Can you tell me more about the 4 markings on the right side of the receiver. I looked at all the markings in the stickys but could not find anything to match?

bigbuckeye · 01-19-2011, 12:43 AM

Looks like the left grip has already been chipped?

sheepherder · 01-19-2011, 07:04 AM

Your Luger has an export stamping ["Germany"] on it, meaning it was intended to be sold outside Germany...Not likely a 'bringback' [war souvenir] would have this stamp...

DavidJayUden · 01-19-2011, 07:55 AM

Sometimes a small flat fiber washer will serve to tighten up the grip panel too. Regardless, don't rely on over-tightning to secure the grip panel.
dju

John Sabato · 01-19-2011, 08:50 AM

I recommend the use of an appropriately sized neoprene O-ring on the screw to help remove the looseness of old original grips that have shrunken with aging. These are usually available in any hardware store or "home depot" type place. The neoprene gently crushes when the screw is tightened and helps immobilize the grip.

I do not recommend shooting Lugers with the original grips. Whether wood or bakelite, they are 60 to 100+ years old and usually brittle and may crack from the recoil impulse... get yourself some repro grips just for shooting and keep the originals safe...

Thor · 01-19-2011, 09:42 AM

This pistol is a good example on how finely finished the 1914s were. Very smooth metal prep.

bigbuckeye · 01-21-2011, 04:43 PM

I know for a fact that it was brought back with him from WWII, along with some grenades, a Nazi Helmet and a K98(since stolen)

Why would the import stamp make this more unlikely?

Also,

The markings below, any ideas? They don't seem to match the DWM proof markings exactly?

sheepherder · 01-21-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbuckeye

I know for a fact that it was brought back with him from WWII, along with some grenades, a Nazi Helmet and a K98(since stolen)

Why would the import stamp make this more unlikely?

If you know that for a fact, then just ignore my remark.

Ed Tinker here on the Forum collects stories about 'bring backs'; if you have one about the war booty your granddad brought back, he would be interested...

01-17-2011, 09:03 PM	#1
bigbuckeye User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What do I have here? Hello Gentlemen, I was just given this Luger last night. My Grandfather brought this back with him from WWII. Other than that, I don't know anything about it and I want to learn as much as possible. Any comments would be apreciated, but I definitely would like to know the following. Why the double date stamp? Was this originally built in 1914 and then rebuilt in 1920? Thanks, Last edited by bigbuckeye; 01-17-2011 at 10:52 PM.

01-18-2011, 08:32 AM	#3
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	HI MIke, Welcome to the forum. You have a 1914 DWM, from WWI, that was restamped during the Weimar era. The 1920 is actually a Reichswehr property stamp, not a re-date. We'd love to see more pics. Especially the acceptance marks on the rt side of the receiver. FN Last edited by FNorm; 01-18-2011 at 08:34 AM. Reason: dele

01-18-2011, 09:35 AM	#9
Hugo Borchardt User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tennessee Posts: 370 Thanks: 338 Thanked 131 Times in 47 Posts	Welcome to the forum! Hey - If you were trying to redact the last 2 digits of the serial # in pic 3, those two digits show up on the small parts in the first 2 photos. Nice gun. Congratulations! Clark __________________ My militaria collection is dedicated to the memory of my Grandfather, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Dave Hill, Jr., wounded in action at The Assault of the Second Marine Division on Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, 20-23 November, 1943. http://www.tarawa1943.com/pages/casualties%20tarawa.htm

01-18-2011, 09:41 AM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi Mike, and welcome to the forum. I can't see the detail because it's not in focus, but your magazine is not contemporary to the pistol. The aluminum bottom magazines were introduced later, in the early 1930s through 1942, with the Russians/East Germans continuing them after WW-II. You've got a nice looking Luger that looks to be in its original finish. Keep it that way! If you haven't cleaned and lubricated it, do it now and do it carefully. If you remove the grips, be particularly careful not to chip the left one near the safety lever. If all the numbers on parts match (4 digits or the last 2 digits) consider not firing it, since breaking a part will considerably reduce it's historic value and interest to collectors - not that you're going to give up your Grandfather's Luger... Check to see if any of his papers can be found - if he received the normal authorization from his unit officer, you'll want to get his "bring back papers" that list this gun's serial number. In this community, most members don't worry about making serial numbers known - in fact, this often helps some of the studies being done by collectors here. DWM was the company that Georg Luger worked for when he developed the Parabellum Pistol. They made a good quality product, and your pistol has been part of three eras in Germany. With your Grandfather, you are literally holding history in your hand! Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-18-2011, 10:10 PM	#12
bigbuckeye User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know for a fact that it was brought back with him from WWII, along with some grenades, a Nazi Helmet and a K98(since stolen) Why would the import stamp make this more unlikely? Also, The markings below, any ideas? Last edited by bigbuckeye; 01-21-2011 at 04:43 PM.

01-18-2011, 08:12 AM	#2
bigbuckeye User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Any help at all?

01-18-2011, 08:38 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Mike, welcome to the forum. not much more I can say, 1914 would have been at the beginning of WW1... You are more than welcome to ask any questions; but searching around is fun and the FAQ has a lot of info in it too; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121 ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-18-2011, 09:25 AM	#7
bigbuckeye User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, I did not see your link (using a Blackberry)

01-18-2011, 09:26 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Its fine, just doing the mod thing of reminding and pointing people to the right place... Ed

01-18-2011, 10:21 AM	#11
bigbuckeye User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you, The number 48 is stamped on all of the parts that I have been able to find, so I have to believe it has all matching pieces. I am going to clean it when I get back home and examine the grips to see if I can get them tighten up using the "O" ring method. I don't plan on shooting it...

01-19-2011, 12:41 AM	#13
bigbuckeye User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Can you tell me more about the 4 markings on the right side of the receiver. I looked at all the markings in the stickys but could not find anything to match?

01-19-2011, 12:43 AM	#14
bigbuckeye User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Looks like the left grip has already been chipped?

01-19-2011, 07:04 AM	#15
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Your Luger has an export stamping ["Germany"] on it, meaning it was intended to be sold outside Germany...Not likely a 'bringback' [war souvenir] would have this stamp... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

01-19-2011, 07:55 AM	#16
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Sometimes a small flat fiber washer will serve to tighten up the grip panel too. Regardless, don't rely on over-tightning to secure the grip panel. dju

01-19-2011, 08:50 AM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I recommend the use of an appropriately sized neoprene O-ring on the screw to help remove the looseness of old original grips that have shrunken with aging. These are usually available in any hardware store or "home depot" type place. The neoprene gently crushes when the screw is tightened and helps immobilize the grip. I do not recommend shooting Lugers with the original grips. Whether wood or bakelite, they are 60 to 100+ years old and usually brittle and may crack from the recoil impulse... get yourself some repro grips just for shooting and keep the originals safe... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-19-2011, 09:42 AM	#18
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	This pistol is a good example on how finely finished the 1914s were. Very smooth metal prep. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-21-2011, 04:43 PM	#19
bigbuckeye User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know for a fact that it was brought back with him from WWII, along with some grenades, a Nazi Helmet and a K98(since stolen) Why would the import stamp make this more unlikely? Also, The markings below, any ideas? They don't seem to match the DWM proof markings exactly?