Luger Christmas Present

jeb858 · 01-04-2011, 02:31 AM

Greetings and Happy New Year,
It has been a great Christmas, I was given a family heirloom watch from my Dad and a family heirloom Luger from my Father in law. I was hoping to get some information about this Lugar from the group. My Father in law took the item from a German Officer in 1944 when he was in North Africa and brought it home after the war. He used it very little except to shoot a few rounds off in the air on New Year’s Eve over the years.

I took some pictures of the pistol and holster and attached them for your review. All numbers match throughout the pistol, even the 2 clips that came with it. The pictures do not do the pistol justice, it is in great shape for its age.

I would like some opinions on the holster and how to clean it properly and any other recommendations you might have to offer. Reading through the posts it is clear there are some very Lugar savvy people on this site!

Regards, Jack

mrerick · 01-04-2011, 10:01 AM

Jack, Congratulations on a beautiful Luger and Holster and welcome to the forum.

It's hard to judge finish on photographs, and particularly difficult when the pictures are taken with flash or direct light.

Looks like you have a pre WW-I imperial Luger in very good original condition.

As it's in the original finish and all matching, including the magazines, it's particularly collectible and rather valuable. The matching holster adds even more to your "rig".

Take good care of it by keeping your Luger clean and wiped down with a rust preventative gun oil. Don't store your Luger in the holster. Get one of the silicone "Gun socks" or a zipper case that allows proper air circulation.

If you take off the grips, be particularly careful with the left grip near the safety lever so that you don't chip the grip. Avoid letting oils soak into the grips.

If you fire it and break a part, you'll cut it's value down considerably. It is more risk than I'd take with this grade specimen.

It looks like mold has developed on your holster. Jerry "lugerholsterrepair" has excellent background on restoration of leather holsters. After cleaning it's likely that you'll need to treat it to prevent recurrence of the mold.

I have used "Lexol" (which is commonly available at auto parts stores) in spray form to help restore dried out leather. This is a controversial area with a wide range of experiences. I'm satisfied with the results, but others (including Jerry in particular) have more experience than I do.

Finally, I'm not well versed in Imperial German unit markings, but I think that it's possible that "B.3.J.D." refers to the Third Bavarian Jaeger-Battalion Division HQ. Again, others on this site have much deeper experience.

Marc

JTD · 01-04-2011, 10:41 AM

Jack, you have a really nice WWI era unit marked luger. It is marked to the Bavarian 3rd infantry division staff. Congrats on a very nice present. I am willing to bet a dollar to a dounought that it spent time along the river Somme under some very unfavorable conditions at one point in its life. Can you make out the ink stamp on the holster? John

alanint · 01-04-2011, 10:55 AM

Welcome and a Beautiful Luger!!

Not to be smart but I must point out a technicality in the capture story; There were no German officers being captured or surrendering in North Africa in 1944.
The German forces in Africa surrendered in May, 1943

DavidJayUden · 01-04-2011, 11:00 AM

I would like to see close-up photos of the bottoms with numbers of the 2 matching magazines and the numbers on the frame. I'm a born skeptic...
More photos. Lots more photos.
But that does look like an extremely nice Luger.
dju

jeb858 · 01-04-2011, 12:09 PM

Thanks for the responses, I am out of town until Saturday and will take more pics then and also get with my Father in Law about where he got the Luger. He is in his mid 90's and the memories come and go.

jeb858 · 01-04-2011, 12:27 PM

I want to say the stamp on the inside flap of the holster is 5FAAR, I am not sure about the 3rd digit A but I am about the rest of them. Again I will take a closer look once I return home.

klaus 3338 · 01-06-2011, 02:34 PM

Hi Jack,
the unit stamp in your holster is 5FdAR 1913 that means 5. Bavarian Field Artillery Regiment. All numbers of the Lugers until 1914 are documented in German archive.
I cannot make out/ find your Luger in this list. I think that your Luger was issued to another holster.
But the 5. Bavarian Field Artillery Regiment had a great history in the Great War and I may congratulation you to both items.
I have 2 holsters of the same ragiment but it was made in 1910 and the other 1912.
Thanks for showing your nice items.

Ron Wood · 01-06-2011, 04:13 PM

You have a really nice Bavarian issue Luger. It is great to see such a well preserved piece, and the holster is equally spectacular. I have its cousin made the year before (1912) and marked to the 4th Bavarian Infantry staff. It is also a WWII bring back captured at Bastogne.

jeb858 · 01-08-2011, 06:17 PM

Home from Dallas and mag pics attached.

Edward Tinker · 01-08-2011, 07:11 PM

Jeb, its a very nice heirloom!

i collect stories on bring backs, and if your father in law has any story with this one, I could use it for vol III ?

i give credit to the original author, and it might be a year or so, since vol II is at the publishers now.

if interested, email me at ed_tinker@hotmail.com

Ed

Ron Wood · 01-08-2011, 11:06 PM

Outstanding!!! Imperial era Lugers are my specilal interest, and this one is right up there at the top of the heap.

George Anderson · 01-09-2011, 07:10 AM

Odds are that the subject pistol came back to the States after 1918.

Mauser720 · 01-09-2011, 09:41 AM

Hi Jack -

This is such an outstanding rig that in my opinion it would be worth contacting Jerry Burney on this Forum and allowing him to clean and preserve that holster for you.

For something this important it is best to trust the work to a professional.

He does outstanding work and I can tell you in advance that you will be very pleased with the results.

Congratulations!

klaus 3338 · 01-11-2011, 03:53 PM

Jack, your Luger is one of a few which are noticed in a 1914 dated list of Bavarian Lugers. You can find your Luger listed as the second in the last line.

Norme · 01-11-2011, 04:07 PM

Hi Klaus, Are all the guns on the Landau list dated 1913 and are they all no suffix? Regards, Norm.

klaus 3338 · 01-12-2011, 11:44 AM

Norm, I found 11 DWM Lugers matching to the Landau list:
DWM 1910; 3452c with B.l.M.K.D.57.
DWM 1910; 5186c with B.R(script, Reserve).M.G.5.16.
DWM 1911; 260e with B.5.A.r.3.89.
DWM 1911; 348e with B.18.R.2.B.
DWM 1913; 1429 with B.3.J.D.
DWM 1913; 1658 with B.18.R.3.B.16.
DWM 1913; 1734 with B.22.R.M.G.14.
DWM 1913; 2155 with B.22.R.4.20.
DWM 1913; 2714 with B.22.R.11.6.
DWM 1913; 2865 with B.8.R(script, Reserve).6.3.
DWM 1913; 817a with B.5.A.r.3.30.
Regards Klaus

Norme · 01-12-2011, 01:00 PM

Thanks Klaus, I have 1913 DWM #2544: B.16.J.R.M.G.75. Any chance this is on the list? Regards, Norm

klaus 3338 · 01-12-2011, 01:36 PM

Norm, Lugers of following Bavarian regiments were listed: Infantry No. 18., 22., 23., Res. Inf. Reg. No. 5 II. and III. Battalion and Res. Inf. Reg. no.8 I. and II. Battalion, 1. Ersatz M.G.K. of the II. Bavarian Army Corps, the Ersatz M.G. Detachment and the 5. and 8. Bavarian Landwehr Reg. ; Cavalry: 3. and 5. Chevaliers; Artillery: 5. and 12. Field Artillery Regiment.
The 16. is not on the list.

01-04-2011, 02:31 AM	#1
jeb858 New User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Luger Christmas Present Greetings and Happy New Year, It has been a great Christmas, I was given a family heirloom watch from my Dad and a family heirloom Luger from my Father in law. I was hoping to get some information about this Lugar from the group. My Father in law took the item from a German Officer in 1944 when he was in North Africa and brought it home after the war. He used it very little except to shoot a few rounds off in the air on New Year’s Eve over the years. I took some pictures of the pistol and holster and attached them for your review. All numbers match throughout the pistol, even the 2 clips that came with it. The pictures do not do the pistol justice, it is in great shape for its age. I would like some opinions on the holster and how to clean it properly and any other recommendations you might have to offer. Reading through the posts it is clear there are some very Lugar savvy people on this site! Regards, Jack Attached Thumbnails

01-06-2011, 02:34 PM	#8
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 519 Thanks: 0 Thanked 417 Times in 162 Posts	Hi Jack, the unit stamp in your holster is 5FdAR 1913 that means 5. Bavarian Field Artillery Regiment. All numbers of the Lugers until 1914 are documented in German archive. I cannot make out/ find your Luger in this list. I think that your Luger was issued to another holster. But the 5. Bavarian Field Artillery Regiment had a great history in the Great War and I may congratulation you to both items. I have 2 holsters of the same ragiment but it was made in 1910 and the other 1912. Thanks for showing your nice items. Attached Thumbnails

01-06-2011, 04:13 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	You have a really nice Bavarian issue Luger. It is great to see such a well preserved piece, and the holster is equally spectacular. I have its cousin made the year before (1912) and marked to the 4th Bavarian Infantry staff. It is also a WWII bring back captured at Bastogne. Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-08-2011, 06:17 PM	#10
jeb858 New User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Magazine Pics and More Home from Dallas and mag pics attached. Attached Thumbnails

01-08-2011, 07:11 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Jeb, its a very nice heirloom! i collect stories on bring backs, and if your father in law has any story with this one, I could use it for vol III ? i give credit to the original author, and it might be a year or so, since vol II is at the publishers now. if interested, email me at ed_tinker@hotmail.com Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-04-2011, 10:01 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Jack, Congratulations on a beautiful Luger and Holster and welcome to the forum. It's hard to judge finish on photographs, and particularly difficult when the pictures are taken with flash or direct light. Looks like you have a pre WW-I imperial Luger in very good original condition. As it's in the original finish and all matching, including the magazines, it's particularly collectible and rather valuable. The matching holster adds even more to your "rig". Take good care of it by keeping your Luger clean and wiped down with a rust preventative gun oil. Don't store your Luger in the holster. Get one of the silicone "Gun socks" or a zipper case that allows proper air circulation. If you take off the grips, be particularly careful with the left grip near the safety lever so that you don't chip the grip. Avoid letting oils soak into the grips. If you fire it and break a part, you'll cut it's value down considerably. It is more risk than I'd take with this grade specimen. It looks like mold has developed on your holster. Jerry "lugerholsterrepair" has excellent background on restoration of leather holsters. After cleaning it's likely that you'll need to treat it to prevent recurrence of the mold. I have used "Lexol" (which is commonly available at auto parts stores) in spray form to help restore dried out leather. This is a controversial area with a wide range of experiences. I'm satisfied with the results, but others (including Jerry in particular) have more experience than I do. Finally, I'm not well versed in Imperial German unit markings, but I think that it's possible that "B.3.J.D." refers to the Third Bavarian Jaeger-Battalion Division HQ. Again, others on this site have much deeper experience. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-04-2011, 10:41 AM	#3
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 428 Thanks: 218 Thanked 410 Times in 151 Posts	Jack, you have a really nice WWI era unit marked luger. It is marked to the Bavarian 3rd infantry division staff. Congrats on a very nice present. I am willing to bet a dollar to a dounought that it spent time along the river Somme under some very unfavorable conditions at one point in its life. Can you make out the ink stamp on the holster? John

01-04-2011, 10:55 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Welcome and a Beautiful Luger!! Not to be smart but I must point out a technicality in the capture story; There were no German officers being captured or surrendering in North Africa in 1944. The German forces in Africa surrendered in May, 1943

01-04-2011, 11:00 AM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I would like to see close-up photos of the bottoms with numbers of the 2 matching magazines and the numbers on the frame. I'm a born skeptic... More photos. Lots more photos. But that does look like an extremely nice Luger. dju

01-04-2011, 12:09 PM	#6
jeb858 New User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for the responses, I am out of town until Saturday and will take more pics then and also get with my Father in Law about where he got the Luger. He is in his mid 90's and the memories come and go.

01-04-2011, 12:27 PM	#7
jeb858 New User Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I want to say the stamp on the inside flap of the holster is 5FAAR, I am not sure about the 3rd digit A but I am about the rest of them. Again I will take a closer look once I return home.

01-08-2011, 11:06 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Outstanding!!! Imperial era Lugers are my specilal interest, and this one is right up there at the top of the heap. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-09-2011, 07:10 AM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Odds are that the subject pistol came back to the States after 1918.

01-09-2011, 09:41 AM	#14
Mauser720 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 535 Thanks: 18 Thanked 49 Times in 33 Posts	Hi Jack - This is such an outstanding rig that in my opinion it would be worth contacting Jerry Burney on this Forum and allowing him to clean and preserve that holster for you. For something this important it is best to trust the work to a professional. He does outstanding work and I can tell you in advance that you will be very pleased with the results. Congratulations! __________________ Mauser720 - Ron "Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it."

01-11-2011, 03:53 PM	#15
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 519 Thanks: 0 Thanked 417 Times in 162 Posts	Jack, your Luger is one of a few which are noticed in a 1914 dated list of Bavarian Lugers. You can find your Luger listed as the second in the last line. Attached Thumbnails

01-11-2011, 04:07 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Klaus, Are all the guns on the Landau list dated 1913 and are they all no suffix? Regards, Norm.

01-12-2011, 11:44 AM	#17
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 519 Thanks: 0 Thanked 417 Times in 162 Posts	Norm, I found 11 DWM Lugers matching to the Landau list: DWM 1910; 3452c with B.l.M.K.D.57. DWM 1910; 5186c with B.R(script, Reserve).M.G.5.16. DWM 1911; 260e with B.5.A.r.3.89. DWM 1911; 348e with B.18.R.2.B. DWM 1913; 1429 with B.3.J.D. DWM 1913; 1658 with B.18.R.3.B.16. DWM 1913; 1734 with B.22.R.M.G.14. DWM 1913; 2155 with B.22.R.4.20. DWM 1913; 2714 with B.22.R.11.6. DWM 1913; 2865 with B.8.R(script, Reserve).6.3. DWM 1913; 817a with B.5.A.r.3.30. Regards Klaus

01-12-2011, 01:00 PM	#18
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Thanks Klaus, I have 1913 DWM #2544: B.16.J.R.M.G.75. Any chance this is on the list? Regards, Norm

01-12-2011, 01:36 PM	#19
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 519 Thanks: 0 Thanked 417 Times in 162 Posts	Norm, Lugers of following Bavarian regiments were listed: Infantry No. 18., 22., 23., Res. Inf. Reg. No. 5 II. and III. Battalion and Res. Inf. Reg. no.8 I. and II. Battalion, 1. Ersatz M.G.K. of the II. Bavarian Army Corps, the Ersatz M.G. Detachment and the 5. and 8. Bavarian Landwehr Reg. ; Cavalry: 3. and 5. Chevaliers; Artillery: 5. and 12. Field Artillery Regiment. The 16. is not on the list.