Souveniers <img BORDER="0" src='http://boards.rennlist.com/luger/pic.gif'>

Orv Reichert · 01-14-2002, 03:03 AM

Combat soldiers did not keep souveniers...they would get you killed right on the spot if you were captured with them. The word was do not have any guns/cameras/watches/medals/etc on you.

The week or so just before the surrender, that was no longer true as the Germans were in full retreat and many of their units were just bypassed by the Allied forces.

The following is a photo from the Time/Life series which shows a happy GI with his collection of loot! I am sure he told his kids that all were taken from the bodies of SS Officers?

Orv Reichert

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/looter.jpg

Orv Reichert · 01-14-2002, 03:05 AM

I CAN NOT SPELL!!!...SORRY

tom · 01-14-2002, 08:30 AM

Hi Orv,

Your post conforms exactly with what my dad, a paratrooper officer in ETO has told me. He said that during the first few days of the Ardennes offensive all of the GIs ditched everything that had glommed on to.

Apparently the Malmedy shootings really got peopples attention.

Bob in AZ · 01-14-2002, 10:33 AM

Hey Orv,

I knew a Battle of the Bugle vet who served with the 75th Inf Div. Real nice guy and told the truth, no war stories. He said just before leaving Europe they were told NO firearms are allowed as "bring backs". They would be checked before entering the states. If they found any guns they would be fine, charges brought against,,, blah blah blah.

He had some really nice guns in his duffle bag, but got scared and left them behind. He went the whole trip back home and they never checked anyone for guns. Man was he pissed!

Bob

BILL · 01-14-2002, 01:01 PM

It is understandable why everyone who has a WWII souvenir thinks that it came from an officer. If a GI was in a small town and there was a pile of discarded swords or medals they were most surely brought back as 'taken off of a dead/captured officer'. I have several nazi items that my dad gave me years ago and, believe it or not, they came from a dead German soldiers mother. She had been given her son's medals and SA dagger (no Luger or rifle). My dad never liked to talk much about his experience (Normandy, Omaha beach) so I guess it was not a 'good' experience for him. I think most of the blowhards probably didn't see much real combat.

Orv Reichert · 01-14-2002, 01:38 PM

One GI told me that they were told to go down to the Gym at the local school where there was a pile of surrendered guns and weapons tured in by the civilians. (penalty was death if not turned in]

He picked out a pistol from one pile and a holster from a pile of holsters. That was what he brought back. [that's why so many have wrong holsters!]

He got papers to bring back...many did not.

The night their ship docked in NY, the ships loudspeakers said they would be subject to a search of all clothing and barracks bags...any guns found that were not 'papered' would result in the GI being returned to Europe for trial.

He said he could not sleep that night because of the sounds of guns being thrown into the water!!!

The next day, they were marched off with no search!

Orv Reichert

Steve Lempitski · 01-14-2002, 01:42 PM

But he worked as a unit armorer and had in his duffle two Thompson machine guns. Same story - threw them overboard that night, and no inspection next day!

01-14-2002, 01:45 PM

With war stories, my dad had a good one which I have told here before, but I would liek to repeat it again.

Dad arrived in Germany shortly after the surrender so he did not see actual combat. During his stay, he met this German girl. Appearently, they must have been close because when he was getting ready to come back to the States, she gave him a Russian Tokarev and Russian Mod. 94 (think this is right) revolver which had belonged to her brother who brought them home froom the Russian Front when he was on leave. Both pistols have holsters with the belt loops modified in the German style. She did not know what had happened to him, but was scared the authorities would find the pistols and she did not want any of her family to go to jail. So dad had the pistols. Along with these 2 pistols, he had 2 P.38s. When he was on ship coming home, the same type announcement was made about guns so he gave up the 2 P.38s and hide the others hoping they would not be found. None of the guys on his ship were searched and he said the officer he gave them to probably kept them for himself.

Marvin C.

Jim · 01-14-2002, 02:38 PM

I have an 82 year old neighbor who tell a story with a little different slant. He indicates that they always took pistols, bayonets, and daggers. from captured troops because these small items would be transported to the rear supply area and traded for luxury items like boots, coats, and best of all new socks. Phil, this mans name, claims that most of the war trophies brought back were brought back by the troops who were safe from capture.

01-14-2002, 03:19 PM

My dad was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII and brought back nothing except stories, but I can give a first person account about Viet Nam. I had a Chinese AK-47 and a Winchester M-1 Carbine that I put in a GI footlocker to send back as hold baggage. I stenciled "Contains Magnetic Tapes - Do Not X-Ray" on the outside and nailed the lid shut. They told us we would go to jail for roughly forever if we were caught sending full auto guns back. The M-1 Carbine was also illegal because it was US manufacture (even though captured from the VC). I chickened out and took the guns out before sending the footlocker. When I later received it at home there was no evidence that it had been opened.

I bought the carbine from an army troop for $25 and the AK had been presented to my USAF unit (with brass plaque) by the 101st Airborne. If I had it to do over again, I would make the effort to buy an SKS and whatever else I could find, and send them back legally. Oh, well, I have a carbine in better condition now and also a Chinese AK semi-auto, as well as Chinese and Soviet SKSs. And I'm not in jail, so I can buy more Lugers.

01-14-2002, 03:21 PM

I could tell you these and dozens more that were told me by my vetran friends regarding captured weapons .

Most if not all are true by virtue of hearing the same thing repeated time after time by many who did not know of the other or even his service theater.

I can truly believe them all.

ViggoG

Bob in AZ · 01-14-2002, 03:27 PM

I had to laugh about the part where the guns going over board kept them awake.

Orv I'm sure if you knew back then, you would have been out there in a small row boat with a big net.

Throw'em here guys!!!

Bob

Orv Reichert · 01-14-2002, 04:20 PM

From 'Upfront' by Bill Mauldin...cartoons from Stars and Stripes ...Italy...1944

Orv Reichert

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Italy1944.jpg

Lonnie Zimmerman · 01-14-2002, 06:23 PM

I was a painter in the shipyards in Portland during the Vietnam war. We had a ship called the Gaffney in that was a transport ship in for overhaul. I believe it was used in WW11 as a transport ship. When working in the bilges, I removed a strainer and found a black hunk of iron that had one time been a Vicory model someone had hid there years ago.

Lonnie

01-14-2002, 08:36 PM

I had an Uncle who was a Marine in WW II and brought back a Mauser Broom Handle that he took from a Japanese. I now have the gun and the bring back papers. Nice piece.

Best regards,

Rod

Orv Reichert · 01-14-2002, 09:09 PM

I saw one T-14 with capture docs that describe it as 'JAP LUGER'..cal.32

Dan Clemons · 01-15-2002, 12:08 AM

01-15-2002, 07:45 AM

Rod,

What is on the Capture papers from a Japanese pistol? I have heard about them, but never seen one from the Pacific theater.

Marvin C.

01-15-2002, 10:38 AM

Marvin,

The I have not seen the document in years - its in the safety deposite box at the bank. I will have to take a look and maybe copy it one of this days. As I remeber it listed my uncle by name (he was an Marine officer)and described the Mauser for what is was and included the serial number. Thats about all I can remeber. I will try and get down to the bank one of these days. The gun is in good shape except the blue is worn from holster use. I guess Japs were allowed to buy their own sidearms or maybe the Germans supplied them with some older weapons. Beats me how it ended up in Japanese hands.

Best regards,

Rod

Johnny Peppers · 01-15-2002, 10:53 AM

Heads up Marvin. E-mail headed your way.

01-14-2002, 03:03 AM	#1
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Souveniers Combat soldiers did not keep souveniers...they would get you killed right on the spot if you were captured with them. The word was do not have any guns/cameras/watches/medals/etc on you. The week or so just before the surrender, that was no longer true as the Germans were in full retreat and many of their units were just bypassed by the Allied forces. The following is a photo from the Time/Life series which shows a happy GI with his collection of loot! I am sure he told his kids that all were taken from the bodies of SS Officers? Orv Reichert http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/looter.jpg

01-14-2002, 03:05 AM	#2
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	SOUVENIRS I CAN NOT SPELL!!!...SORRY

01-14-2002, 08:30 AM	#3
tom User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 269 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Re: SOUVENIRS Hi Orv, Your post conforms exactly with what my dad, a paratrooper officer in ETO has told me. He said that during the first few days of the Ardennes offensive all of the GIs ditched everything that had glommed on to. Apparently the Malmedy shootings really got peopples attention.

01-14-2002, 10:33 AM	#4
Bob in AZ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 66 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: SOUVENIRS Hey Orv, I knew a Battle of the Bugle vet who served with the 75th Inf Div. Real nice guy and told the truth, no war stories. He said just before leaving Europe they were told NO firearms are allowed as "bring backs". They would be checked before entering the states. If they found any guns they would be fine, charges brought against,,, blah blah blah. He had some really nice guns in his duffle bag, but got scared and left them behind. He went the whole trip back home and they never checked anyone for guns. Man was he pissed! Bob

01-14-2002, 01:01 PM	#5
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: SOUVENIRS It is understandable why everyone who has a WWII souvenir thinks that it came from an officer. If a GI was in a small town and there was a pile of discarded swords or medals they were most surely brought back as 'taken off of a dead/captured officer'. I have several nazi items that my dad gave me years ago and, believe it or not, they came from a dead German soldiers mother. She had been given her son's medals and SA dagger (no Luger or rifle). My dad never liked to talk much about his experience (Normandy, Omaha beach) so I guess it was not a 'good' experience for him. I think most of the blowhards probably didn't see much real combat.

01-14-2002, 01:38 PM	#6
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	BRING BACKS One GI told me that they were told to go down to the Gym at the local school where there was a pile of surrendered guns and weapons tured in by the civilians. (penalty was death if not turned in] He picked out a pistol from one pile and a holster from a pile of holsters. That was what he brought back. [that's why so many have wrong holsters!] He got papers to bring back...many did not. The night their ship docked in NY, the ships loudspeakers said they would be subject to a search of all clothing and barracks bags...any guns found that were not 'papered' would result in the GI being returned to Europe for trial. He said he could not sleep that night because of the sounds of guns being thrown into the water!!! The next day, they were marched off with no search! Orv Reichert

01-14-2002, 01:42 PM	#7
Steve Lempitski User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Old Cape Cod Posts: 238 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Same thing happened to my neigbors dad.. But he worked as a unit armorer and had in his duffle two Thompson machine guns. Same story - threw them overboard that night, and no inspection next day!

01-14-2002, 01:45 PM	#8
Marvin C. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: BRING BACKS With war stories, my dad had a good one which I have told here before, but I would liek to repeat it again. Dad arrived in Germany shortly after the surrender so he did not see actual combat. During his stay, he met this German girl. Appearently, they must have been close because when he was getting ready to come back to the States, she gave him a Russian Tokarev and Russian Mod. 94 (think this is right) revolver which had belonged to her brother who brought them home froom the Russian Front when he was on leave. Both pistols have holsters with the belt loops modified in the German style. She did not know what had happened to him, but was scared the authorities would find the pistols and she did not want any of her family to go to jail. So dad had the pistols. Along with these 2 pistols, he had 2 P.38s. When he was on ship coming home, the same type announcement was made about guns so he gave up the 2 P.38s and hide the others hoping they would not be found. None of the guys on his ship were searched and he said the officer he gave them to probably kept them for himself. Marvin C.

01-14-2002, 02:38 PM	#9
Jim User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: BRING BACKS I have an 82 year old neighbor who tell a story with a little different slant. He indicates that they always took pistols, bayonets, and daggers. from captured troops because these small items would be transported to the rear supply area and traded for luxury items like boots, coats, and best of all new socks. Phil, this mans name, claims that most of the war trophies brought back were brought back by the troops who were safe from capture.

01-14-2002, 03:19 PM	#10
Bill Utterback Guest Posts: n/a	Re: BRING BACKS My dad was in the Navy in the Pacific in WWII and brought back nothing except stories, but I can give a first person account about Viet Nam. I had a Chinese AK-47 and a Winchester M-1 Carbine that I put in a GI footlocker to send back as hold baggage. I stenciled "Contains Magnetic Tapes - Do Not X-Ray" on the outside and nailed the lid shut. They told us we would go to jail for roughly forever if we were caught sending full auto guns back. The M-1 Carbine was also illegal because it was US manufacture (even though captured from the VC). I chickened out and took the guns out before sending the footlocker. When I later received it at home there was no evidence that it had been opened. I bought the carbine from an army troop for $25 and the AK had been presented to my USAF unit (with brass plaque) by the 101st Airborne. If I had it to do over again, I would make the effort to buy an SKS and whatever else I could find, and send them back legally. Oh, well, I have a carbine in better condition now and also a Chinese AK semi-auto, as well as Chinese and Soviet SKSs. And I'm not in jail, so I can buy more Lugers.

01-14-2002, 03:21 PM	#11
Viggo G Dereng Guest Posts: n/a	Re: THE FACTS TOLD ABOUT "BRING BACKS" I could tell you these and dozens more that were told me by my vetran friends regarding captured weapons . Most if not all are true by virtue of hearing the same thing repeated time after time by many who did not know of the other or even his service theater. I can truly believe them all. ViggoG

01-14-2002, 03:27 PM	#12
Bob in AZ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona Posts: 66 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: BRING BACKS,,,re:Made me laugh!!! I had to laugh about the part where the guns going over board kept them awake. Orv I'm sure if you knew back then, you would have been out there in a small row boat with a big net. Throw'em here guys!!! Bob

01-14-2002, 04:20 PM	#13
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	WILLIE & JOE......1944 From 'Upfront' by Bill Mauldin...cartoons from Stars and Stripes ...Italy...1944 Orv Reichert http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Italy1944.jpg

01-14-2002, 06:23 PM	#14
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: WILLIE & JOE......1944 I was a painter in the shipyards in Portland during the Vietnam war. We had a ship called the Gaffney in that was a transport ship in for overhaul. I believe it was used in WW11 as a transport ship. When working in the bilges, I removed a strainer and found a black hunk of iron that had one time been a Vicory model someone had hid there years ago. Lonnie

01-14-2002, 08:36 PM	#15
REB Guest Posts: n/a	Re: BRING BACKS - Japanese I had an Uncle who was a Marine in WW II and brought back a Mauser Broom Handle that he took from a Japanese. I now have the gun and the bring back papers. Nice piece. Best regards, Rod

01-14-2002, 09:09 PM	#16
Orv Reichert RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW Washington State Posts: 339 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	JAP CAPTURE DOC'S I saw one T-14 with capture docs that describe it as 'JAP LUGER'..cal.32

01-15-2002, 12:08 AM	#17
Dan Clemons User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Grants Pass, OR Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Great Stories! I loved them all. (EOM)

01-15-2002, 07:45 AM	#18
Marvin C. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: BRING BACKS - Japanese Rod, What is on the Capture papers from a Japanese pistol? I have heard about them, but never seen one from the Pacific theater. Marvin C.

01-15-2002, 10:38 AM	#19
REB Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Marvin C............ Marvin, The I have not seen the document in years - its in the safety deposite box at the bank. I will have to take a look and maybe copy it one of this days. As I remeber it listed my uncle by name (he was an Marine officer)and described the Mauser for what is was and included the serial number. Thats about all I can remeber. I will try and get down to the bank one of these days. The gun is in good shape except the blue is worn from holster use. I guess Japs were allowed to buy their own sidearms or maybe the Germans supplied them with some older weapons. Beats me how it ended up in Japanese hands. Best regards, Rod

01-15-2002, 10:53 AM	#20
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: BRING BACKS - Japanese Heads up Marvin. E-mail headed your way.