1915 German Luger

goodguysetx · 11-27-2010, 11:33 AM

Seeking info on a 1915 Luger stamped DWM. Would like to know what the other stampings indicate. Thanks Eddie

Don M · 11-27-2010, 11:39 AM

Welcome to the forum, Eddie. You'll need to at least provide good descriptions of the other stampings for us to help you. Photos would be much better.

goodguysetx · 11-27-2010, 02:46 PM

Thanks Don. I have taken some pics on digital cam but have to get my daughter to download them for me. I'm not real good with these comps. It has SP . Bn . 1046 stamped on the grip strap. As far as i can determine all the parts have the same serial number. Thanks

GerColctor · 11-28-2010, 12:57 PM

Goodguy

Based upon what you have discribed, those letters/numbers may be a Weimar police unit mark on the front grip of you Luger. I cannot find the SP or the BN in my reference books, but others on this form may be able to identify it.

It may also have a sear safety installed, as most police issued Lugers do.

Joe

Don M · 11-28-2010, 04:32 PM

Eddie, the grip strap marking is from the Wiemar-era Schutzpolizei (state municipal police) of the city-state of Bremen. Much more can be determined from good photos.

goodguysetx · 12-09-2010, 01:31 PM

Hope these pics will help provide me some information on the pisol. Thanks Eddie

goodguysetx · 12-09-2010, 01:42 PM

More pics for yall. Eddie

goodguysetx · 12-11-2010, 09:11 PM

Don, I posted several new pics on this thread. Hope they will be helpful in determining the history of this pistol. Thanks, Eddie

Don M · 12-11-2010, 09:34 PM

Eddie, I don't see them.

goodguysetx · 12-11-2010, 10:55 PM

they should be on another thread i posted on here

Don M · 12-12-2010, 01:29 PM

Eddie, for future reference, it would have been less complicated if you had added these photos to your original thread. You simply have to use the "Add Reply" button instead of the "Quick Reply."

This pistol was manufactured in 1915 by Deutsche Waffern- und Munitionsfabriken for military use. Following the war, it was transferred to the police and was stamped 1920 on the chamber to indicate it was government property. The stamping on this pistol is unique in that I don't recall having seen a case where the property stamp was placed on top of the date stamp. They are typically on the chamber forward of the date stamp.

The pistol was used by the Schutzpolizei of the Free Hanseatic City of Bremen during the Weimar era as evidenced by the grip strap marking SP.Bn.1046. There is evidence on the grip strap that an earlier marking was ground off. This may have been an earlier Weimar police mark or an even earlier military unit mark. The markings of the Schupo of Bremen are somewhat puzzling and not fully understood. If you are interested, much more about them may be found in my book History Writ in Steel, Chapter 17.

The pistol has a sear safety that was added in 1934 or later. This indicates the pistol was issued to the precinct police and remained in police service, probably throughout WWII. The matching magazine was a replacement manufactured by Simson & Co. (eagle over 6 acceptance stamp and S) in the 1920s. It was the spare magazine (2) for this pistol.

I can't tell from the photos what markings, if any, are on the barrel. It would be helpful to know these to determine if the barrel is original to the gun or a replacement.

I would also appreciate knowing the letter suffix below the number 4994 on the front of the frame above the trigger guard.

I hope this has been helpful to you.

I am unfamiliar with the holster style but am sure it is not the holster used for this gun by the Bremen Schupo.

sheepherder · 12-12-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don M

This pistol...was stamped 1920 on the chamber to indicate it was government property. The stamping on this pistol is unique in that I don't recall having seen a case where the property stamp was placed on top of the date stamp.

I must be missing something here...I don't see any chamber pics...

Am I missing pics, or is there something in one of the 5 pics posted that I missed???

Don M · 12-12-2010, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

I must be missing something here...I don't see any chamber pics...

This topic is scattered among three threads. The original is http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25098. The photos of the mag, chamber stamp and holster are in http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25156.

Edward Tinker · 12-12-2010, 08:40 PM

Thank you Don, I have merged all the threads into one.

I have never seen a 1920 property stamp over a date stamp either. interesting

Ed

goodguysetx · 12-13-2010, 10:21 AM

Thank you Don and Ed. I will try and post some pics of what you're asking for Don. From what I can tell it is small script a on both the frame above the trigger guard. The other markings on the barrel are 4994 and 8.84. I appreciate yall's helping to identify some of the history of this gun. I took it to a local pawn shop and the owner identified it as possibly a police issue pistol. He also said the holster was Russian. Not sure if he is correct but it is interesting. I just wish my uncle and dad were alive so i could get the facts about how my uncle came about aquiring the luger. Thanks again! Eddie

Don M · 12-13-2010, 04:31 PM

Eddie, it doesn't seem as if the barrel has a whole lot to tell. If it were original to the pistol it would have had a Reichsadler (eagle stamp the same as the rightmost one on the right side of the receiver) stamped on the right side of the barrel. The 4994 is, of course, the serial number of the pistol and the 8,84 is the land-to-land diameter of the bore in mm. It does not appear to have any markings indicating who replaced the barrel.

goodguysetx · 12-13-2010, 05:00 PM

Thanks Don, I don't see any evidence of an eagle stamp on the barrel, but what does the small script a indicate. Also there is some writing and stamp on the clip. I will try and get some pics of it soon. I appreciate your help very much. Thanks Eddie

Ron Wood · 12-13-2010, 05:15 PM

Don,
I am not sure, but I believe I see the remnants of a Reichsadler on the barrel in the photo of the right side of the receiver. It may have been nearly obliterated when the gun was reworked for police use. Photos of the underside of the barrel and receiver might tell a much more conclusive story. It is nice to see another Bremen gun show up...I love that city!

Eddie,
I am assuming the small script "a" is either just below the serial number on the front of the frame or below the serial number on the barrel, or both. It indicates an increment of 10,000 and is actually part of the serial number. Therefore your Luger would be number 14,994 in the year 1915.

Don M · 12-13-2010, 05:55 PM

Ron, you must have better eyes than mine.

Here's another Bremen gun that just surfaced: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=25009.

Ron Wood · 12-13-2010, 07:19 PM

Don,
I doubt my eyes are as good as yours. It is a real stretch but here is what I think I see.

11-27-2010, 11:33 AM	#1
goodguysetx User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1915 German Luger Seeking info on a 1915 Luger stamped DWM. Would like to know what the other stampings indicate. Thanks Eddie

11-27-2010, 11:39 AM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Welcome to the forum, Eddie. You'll need to at least provide good descriptions of the other stampings for us to help you. Photos would be much better. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

11-28-2010, 12:57 PM	#4
GerColctor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: CT & FL Posts: 308 Thanks: 2 Thanked 40 Times in 27 Posts	Goodguy Based upon what you have discribed, those letters/numbers may be a Weimar police unit mark on the front grip of you Luger. I cannot find the SP or the BN in my reference books, but others on this form may be able to identify it. It may also have a sear safety installed, as most police issued Lugers do. Joe __________________ It is better to have lived a day as a tiger, then a thousand years as a lamb.

11-28-2010, 04:32 PM	#5
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Eddie, the grip strap marking is from the Wiemar-era Schutzpolizei (state municipal police) of the city-state of Bremen. Much more can be determined from good photos. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

12-09-2010, 01:31 PM	#6
goodguysetx User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pics of 1915 DWM Hope these pics will help provide me some information on the pisol. Thanks Eddie Attached Thumbnails

11-27-2010, 02:46 PM	#3
goodguysetx User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Don. I have taken some pics on digital cam but have to get my daughter to download them for me. I'm not real good with these comps. It has SP . Bn . 1046 stamped on the grip strap. As far as i can determine all the parts have the same serial number. Thanks

12-09-2010, 01:42 PM	#7
goodguysetx User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More pics of 1915 DWM More pics for yall. Eddie Attached Thumbnails

12-11-2010, 09:11 PM	#8
goodguysetx User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Don, I posted several new pics on this thread. Hope they will be helpful in determining the history of this pistol. Thanks, Eddie

12-11-2010, 09:34 PM	#9
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Eddie, I don't see them. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

12-11-2010, 10:55 PM	#10
goodguysetx User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	they should be on another thread i posted on here

12-12-2010, 01:29 PM	#11
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Eddie, for future reference, it would have been less complicated if you had added these photos to your original thread. You simply have to use the "Add Reply" button instead of the "Quick Reply." This pistol was manufactured in 1915 by Deutsche Waffern- und Munitionsfabriken for military use. Following the war, it was transferred to the police and was stamped 1920 on the chamber to indicate it was government property. The stamping on this pistol is unique in that I don't recall having seen a case where the property stamp was placed on top of the date stamp. They are typically on the chamber forward of the date stamp. The pistol was used by the Schutzpolizei of the Free Hanseatic City of Bremen during the Weimar era as evidenced by the grip strap marking SP.Bn.1046. There is evidence on the grip strap that an earlier marking was ground off. This may have been an earlier Weimar police mark or an even earlier military unit mark. The markings of the Schupo of Bremen are somewhat puzzling and not fully understood. If you are interested, much more about them may be found in my book History Writ in Steel, Chapter 17. The pistol has a sear safety that was added in 1934 or later. This indicates the pistol was issued to the precinct police and remained in police service, probably throughout WWII. The matching magazine was a replacement manufactured by Simson & Co. (eagle over 6 acceptance stamp and S) in the 1920s. It was the spare magazine (2) for this pistol. I can't tell from the photos what markings, if any, are on the barrel. It would be helpful to know these to determine if the barrel is original to the gun or a replacement. I would also appreciate knowing the letter suffix below the number 4994 on the front of the frame above the trigger guard. I hope this has been helpful to you. I am unfamiliar with the holster style but am sure it is not the holster used for this gun by the Bremen Schupo. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

12-12-2010, 08:40 PM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Thank you Don, I have merged all the threads into one. I have never seen a 1920 property stamp over a date stamp either. interesting Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-13-2010, 10:21 AM	#15
goodguysetx User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you Don and Ed. I will try and post some pics of what you're asking for Don. From what I can tell it is small script a on both the frame above the trigger guard. The other markings on the barrel are 4994 and 8.84. I appreciate yall's helping to identify some of the history of this gun. I took it to a local pawn shop and the owner identified it as possibly a police issue pistol. He also said the holster was Russian. Not sure if he is correct but it is interesting. I just wish my uncle and dad were alive so i could get the facts about how my uncle came about aquiring the luger. Thanks again! Eddie

12-13-2010, 04:31 PM	#16
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Eddie, it doesn't seem as if the barrel has a whole lot to tell. If it were original to the pistol it would have had a Reichsadler (eagle stamp the same as the rightmost one on the right side of the receiver) stamped on the right side of the barrel. The 4994 is, of course, the serial number of the pistol and the 8,84 is the land-to-land diameter of the bore in mm. It does not appear to have any markings indicating who replaced the barrel. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

12-13-2010, 05:00 PM	#17
goodguysetx User Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Don, I don't see any evidence of an eagle stamp on the barrel, but what does the small script a indicate. Also there is some writing and stamp on the clip. I will try and get some pics of it soon. I appreciate your help very much. Thanks Eddie

12-13-2010, 05:15 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Don, I am not sure, but I believe I see the remnants of a Reichsadler on the barrel in the photo of the right side of the receiver. It may have been nearly obliterated when the gun was reworked for police use. Photos of the underside of the barrel and receiver might tell a much more conclusive story. It is nice to see another Bremen gun show up...I love that city! Eddie, I am assuming the small script "a" is either just below the serial number on the front of the frame or below the serial number on the barrel, or both. It indicates an increment of 10,000 and is actually part of the serial number. Therefore your Luger would be number 14,994 in the year 1915. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-13-2010, 05:55 PM	#19
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Ron, you must have better eyes than mine. Here's another Bremen gun that just surfaced: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=25009. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

12-13-2010, 07:19 PM	#20
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Don, I doubt my eyes are as good as yours. It is a real stretch but here is what I think I see. Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction