extracting problem

Leen · 10-31-2010, 12:50 PM

Hello everybody,

I have fired my byf 41 again today with some reloaded rounds of an friend of mine.

When I fired the ammunition, some of the shells got stuck inside she chamber. I had to use an stick to puch them out trough the barrel.

What could be the possible cause for this problem ?

Thanks,

Leen

sheepherder · 10-31-2010, 01:14 PM

An interesting problem...

Does it extract white box Wal-Mart ammo OK???

Does the primer on the fired cartridges look "flattened"???

It sounds like the chamber pressure is still high and the shell is still sealing the breech while the extractor is trying to pull it out...I would guess slow burning powder, probably too much...

The pressure should be high when the powder is first ignited, the shell will expand to seal that end of the barrel; then it should fall as the bullet reaches the end of the barrel...the extraction sequence should have commenced before then...When the pressure has dropped...

That's all guesses, of course...(and a gross over-simplification)...It could be a simple problem like crud under the extractor...

I reload a lot, and tune my reloads to the individual weapon...I carry a brass squib rod and a little brass mallet with me to the range...I field strip my pistol completely when I hear a strange report when firing...I've found that other shooters get nervous when they see me tapping the rod down the barrel...

policeluger · 10-31-2010, 01:45 PM

Try cutting/spliting a 8" or so, some what under size soft wood dowl about 3/4" down.....a hack saw blade works great for this, from one end, wrap.....using split to hold cloth, a small strip of coucus (sp) cloth until very tight fit in chamber, from the back of course....try spining it with a drill and only polish a thousands or so of the chamber....works all the time

Vlim · 10-31-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

reloaded rounds of an friend of mine

There is your problem

The P08 has a rim in the chamber that acts as a gas seal. Improper reloading will expand the case, causing it to jam at the place where the case is thickest and the chamber is at it's narrowest.

Stick to factory ammunition as stated about a zillion times before.

Leen · 11-01-2010, 12:49 PM

Thanks for your comments,

The funny thing was that it only happened when my girlfriend fired the gun.When I did there were no malfunctions.

The magtech ammo functioned verry well when I fired it.

Leen

Frank · 11-01-2010, 01:08 PM

Leen, then don't let your girlfriend shoot your Luger!!!

Vlim · 11-01-2010, 02:42 PM

Could be that she was 'limp wristing'. The gun needs a certain amount of pressure from the shooter's hand in order to repeat properly.

Other than that, I'm with Frank on this one

Thor · 11-01-2010, 04:50 PM

I am finishing a parts Luger that has a hole drilled through the bottom of the breech block in the recessed area under the firing pin hole. I suppose it is for pressure relief to keep a block from being ruined when the guide/firing pin get punched out the back end and the little retention knob on the guide shears out the back end of the block from a high pressure round coming through a punch primer or failed case.

Vlim · 11-01-2010, 05:31 PM

Hi Ted,

This modification is often seen on Finnish lugers. I think you are right, a fail safe in case of pierced primers and gas blow by. Easy and elegant fix that also helps to keep the crud from building up too much, I guess.

Leen · 11-03-2010, 04:13 PM

Thanksfor youre replies,

But how is it possible that my luger cycles without ejecting the empty case?

Leen

policeluger · 11-03-2010, 04:31 PM

Check your extractor and spring....worn parts weak spring....

chromeed · 11-03-2010, 06:04 PM

Ammo:
I have used Winchester White box ammo purchased at Wallmart $23.97 / 100 (.24 ea.) in my Lugers.
They also have Remington Green & White box at $51 .97 / 250 (.208 ea.).
Any experience with this ammo (more shots for less bucks)

Vlim · 11-03-2010, 06:44 PM

Leen,

The case gets stuck in the chamber, the extractor slips over it, perhaps it will extract the case only partially, preventing a new round from feeding. When the toggle slams forward again, it will push the empty case back in again.

Curly1 · 11-03-2010, 08:48 PM

Remington will not work well in mine. If you place a Winchester White Box and Remington side by side you will see the difference.

It has been a long time since I have used it so can't remember if it was feeding or extracting problems or both.

It feeds and extracts in my P1 and other 9MM's no problem.

AndrewC · 11-03-2010, 09:23 PM

Am I correct in my understanding that 1: reloads are generally not recommended, 2: +P also risky? I was under the impression that lugers cycled better with +P. Cheers, Andy

MFC · 11-04-2010, 12:24 AM

It's not the chamber pressure that is the problem using +P ammo in a Luger, it's the toggle train that gets beat to death.

DavidJayUden · 11-04-2010, 08:17 AM

Leen:
Any progress on the non-ejection issue?

Lugerdoc · 11-04-2010, 10:56 AM

Leen, In addition to the causes mentioned above, you should also check the head spacing and the chamber for erosion. If the chamber is pitted or oversized, the cartridge case will expend to a point where the extractor force is not enough to pull out the round. Finally, check your ejector, if the tip inside the receiver is broken off, the extracted round, may just go back into the chamber. TH

Leen · 11-04-2010, 01:01 PM

Ok,

I will check teh chamber and springs. I will have to order some parts. I want to replace the ejector anyhow because it is an numbered matching gun.Next time I`ll use some factory loads

Thanks everyone

Leen

DavidJayUden · 11-04-2010, 01:50 PM

Yes, use factory loads. While at the range, carefully point it downrange and with loaded mag. cycle the toggle until empty to test if it will eject loaded rounds. And if it fails to eject a fired round note if it takes a lot of pressure to drive it out, suggesting a pitted chamber.
dju

10-31-2010, 12:50 PM	#1
Leen User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	extracting problem Hello everybody, I have fired my byf 41 again today with some reloaded rounds of an friend of mine. When I fired the ammunition, some of the shells got stuck inside she chamber. I had to use an stick to puch them out trough the barrel. What could be the possible cause for this problem ? Thanks, Leen

10-31-2010, 01:14 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	An interesting problem... Does it extract white box Wal-Mart ammo OK??? Does the primer on the fired cartridges look "flattened"??? It sounds like the chamber pressure is still high and the shell is still sealing the breech while the extractor is trying to pull it out...I would guess slow burning powder, probably too much... The pressure should be high when the powder is first ignited, the shell will expand to seal that end of the barrel; then it should fall as the bullet reaches the end of the barrel...the extraction sequence should have commenced before then...When the pressure has dropped... That's all guesses, of course...(and a gross over-simplification)...It could be a simple problem like crud under the extractor... I reload a lot, and tune my reloads to the individual weapon...I carry a brass squib rod and a little brass mallet with me to the range...I field strip my pistol completely when I hear a strange report when firing...I've found that other shooters get nervous when they see me tapping the rod down the barrel... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

11-01-2010, 04:50 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I am finishing a parts Luger that has a hole drilled through the bottom of the breech block in the recessed area under the firing pin hole. I suppose it is for pressure relief to keep a block from being ruined when the guide/firing pin get punched out the back end and the little retention knob on the guide shears out the back end of the block from a high pressure round coming through a punch primer or failed case. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

11-03-2010, 08:48 PM	#14
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,241 Thanks: 117 Thanked 714 Times in 371 Posts	Remington will not work well in mine. If you place a Winchester White Box and Remington side by side you will see the difference. It has been a long time since I have used it so can't remember if it was feeding or extracting problems or both. It feeds and extracts in my P1 and other 9MM's no problem. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

11-04-2010, 12:24 AM	#16
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	It's not the chamber pressure that is the problem using +P ammo in a Luger, it's the toggle train that gets beat to death. __________________ Mike C.

10-31-2010, 01:45 PM	#3
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Try cutting/spliting a 8" or so, some what under size soft wood dowl about 3/4" down.....a hack saw blade works great for this, from one end, wrap.....using split to hold cloth, a small strip of coucus (sp) cloth until very tight fit in chamber, from the back of course....try spining it with a drill and only polish a thousands or so of the chamber....works all the time

11-01-2010, 12:49 PM	#5
Leen User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for your comments, The funny thing was that it only happened when my girlfriend fired the gun.When I did there were no malfunctions. The magtech ammo functioned verry well when I fired it. Leen

11-01-2010, 01:08 PM	#6
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Leen, then don't let your girlfriend shoot your Luger!!!

11-01-2010, 02:42 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Could be that she was 'limp wristing'. The gun needs a certain amount of pressure from the shooter's hand in order to repeat properly. Other than that, I'm with Frank on this one

11-01-2010, 05:31 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Ted, This modification is often seen on Finnish lugers. I think you are right, a fail safe in case of pierced primers and gas blow by. Easy and elegant fix that also helps to keep the crud from building up too much, I guess.

11-03-2010, 04:13 PM	#10
Leen User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanksfor youre replies, But how is it possible that my luger cycles without ejecting the empty case? Leen

11-03-2010, 04:31 PM	#11
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Check your extractor and spring....worn parts weak spring....

11-03-2010, 06:04 PM	#12
chromeed User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North Georgia Posts: 81 Thanks: 1 Thanked 27 Times in 9 Posts	Ammo: I have used Winchester White box ammo purchased at Wallmart $23.97 / 100 (.24 ea.) in my Lugers. They also have Remington Green & White box at $51 .97 / 250 (.208 ea.). Any experience with this ammo (more shots for less bucks)

11-03-2010, 06:44 PM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Leen, The case gets stuck in the chamber, the extractor slips over it, perhaps it will extract the case only partially, preventing a new round from feeding. When the toggle slams forward again, it will push the empty case back in again.

11-03-2010, 09:23 PM	#15
AndrewC User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 35 Thanks: 37 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Am I correct in my understanding that 1: reloads are generally not recommended, 2: +P also risky? I was under the impression that lugers cycled better with +P. Cheers, Andy

11-04-2010, 08:17 AM	#17
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Leen: Any progress on the non-ejection issue?

11-04-2010, 10:56 AM	#18
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Leen, In addition to the causes mentioned above, you should also check the head spacing and the chamber for erosion. If the chamber is pitted or oversized, the cartridge case will expend to a point where the extractor force is not enough to pull out the round. Finally, check your ejector, if the tip inside the receiver is broken off, the extracted round, may just go back into the chamber. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-04-2010, 01:01 PM	#19
Leen User Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok, I will check teh chamber and springs. I will have to order some parts. I want to replace the ejector anyhow because it is an numbered matching gun.Next time I`ll use some factory loads Thanks everyone Leen

11-04-2010, 01:50 PM	#20
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Yes, use factory loads. While at the range, carefully point it downrange and with loaded mag. cycle the toggle until empty to test if it will eject loaded rounds. And if it fails to eject a fired round note if it takes a lot of pressure to drive it out, suggesting a pitted chamber. dju