BYF 41 w/ 3 digit serial #

lthiardog · 07-28-2010, 08:41 AM

Hi guys,

This is my first post and I am a proud new Luger owner. I purchased a very nice BYF 41 at the estate sale of a WW II veteran. The gentleman was a P-51 pilot stationed in England w/ the 353rd Fighter Squadron.

The Luger seems to be in excellent condition, with all matching numbers except mags and take-down tool. That's question #1 - Should mags and take-down have matching numbers?

I would rate the blueing at 96%? Holster wear on muzzle (both sides) and trigger sideplate are only two spots. Wooden grips are in excellent condition w/ the diamond points showing very little wear.

The mags (2) have plastic bases. Are marked P.08 and FXO. Question #2 - Are these correct mags?

The serial # for this pistol is 198. There is no letter under the serial number under barrel. My understanding is that this was the 198th pistol made in the year 1941. Question #3 - Does having a 3 digit serial number increase value at all?

The brown holster also seems to be in very good condition, with Nazi proof mark and maker on back (I can't remember maker at the moment) The big flaw w/ the holster is that there is an American name and service number etched into the front of it below the flap. It is different than the name of the vetern listed above. I presume that it was picked up by the first fellow and then was traded and eventually ended up w/ the fighter pilot.

Also included are the take-down tool which appears to have a Nazi proof mark, but it is to small for me to read at the moment. And the original letter from the 353rd ordnance officer authorizing the pilot the Luger as a war trophy. Interestingly, on the letter, the caliber is listed as .38. Perhaps a rear echelon army air force ordance guy didn't know caliber of Luger or a typo. I also purchased an original card board box of German 9mm ammo w/ all ammo unfired and the Zippo lighter w/ pilot's name (not sure if WWII or after) which I will keep w/ pistol.

I got into a bidding war for the pistol and I am concerned that I overpaid for it. Based on the info above and my poor pics that I have included, could you guys give me ballpark on what my set is worth?

thanks,
Steve

Norme · 07-28-2010, 09:03 AM

Hi Steve, Welcome to this forum and Luger collecting. Unnumbered black plastic based magazines are correct for late 1941 pistols. Only takedown tools for police use were numbered. One Luger in ten has less than four digits in it's serial number, so they are not that uncommon. I, personally, don't mind holsters that have a GI's name and number inscribed, as I think it's part of it's history. Other collectors might feel differently, so an inscription does have some negative effect on value. Regards, Norm

Lugerdoc · 07-28-2010, 09:15 AM

The 41BYF PO8s serialization began in the "n" suffix block mixed in with 41 code 42 PO8s, so your no suffix 41 would have followed those in the "z" block, so not early 41. Assuming all matching with 98% orig finish, I'd estimate your rig in the $2K range. TH

mrerick · 07-28-2010, 09:18 AM

Hi,

I'm still relatively new to this, so my valuation is probably off...

You have a particularly nice Mauser made Luger pistol.

The "FXO" magazines manufactured by Haenel were made using extruded steel, and are the best Luger magazines available.

Others can confirm this, but the name on your holster is part of its history and doesn't necessarily detract in value. From what I can see it is an original holster in very good condition.

The magazines are worth $125 each, and the holster is probably worth $225-250.

The "Bring Back" letter adds value to your rig. Perhaps 10-20%.

If never refinished, the all matching Luger is collectible, and would command a premium.

You can compare it to the commercial retail sales taking place by dealers like Simpson and Company in Illinois. They are about 30% higher than collector market pricing.

So, what did the bidding war get you up to?

Marc

DavidJayUden · 07-28-2010, 09:20 AM

So based on the LugerDoc's learned estimate, how did you do?
dju

lthiardog · 07-28-2010, 10:08 AM

I paid $3300, sad to say. I had a feeling I was fairly high, but I guess that's the risk of buying at auction. However, (perhaps rationalizing a bit) I am still happy with my purchase. I wanted a Nazi era pistol w/ holster and bringback paperwork. I know exactly where it came from and that it hasn't been messed with. My only regret, is I think I got one that's to nice to shoot. Guess that means I'll have to start looking for number 2!

Thanks for the feedback. Especially the serialization info.

My "bringback letter" is not the official form that I saw pictured on this forum, but the wording is the same, so I guess they didn't have any official forms at the squadron. It is clearly period, however.

Steve

DavidJayUden · 07-28-2010, 01:05 PM

A bit on the high end but it is a nice piece that will hold its value and down the road you may look back and see this as your best investment. We can all hope...
dju

Balder · 07-29-2010, 05:37 AM

Steve,

A very nice rig in deed. Remember: You never pay too much for a gun, but you may pay it too early.

Balder

whcoyote · 10-18-2010, 10:15 PM

As George would say, "If it's not worth $3300 today, it will be tomorrow".

07-28-2010, 08:41 AM	#1
lthiardog New User Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	BYF 41 w/ 3 digit serial # Hi guys, This is my first post and I am a proud new Luger owner. I purchased a very nice BYF 41 at the estate sale of a WW II veteran. The gentleman was a P-51 pilot stationed in England w/ the 353rd Fighter Squadron. The Luger seems to be in excellent condition, with all matching numbers except mags and take-down tool. That's question #1 - Should mags and take-down have matching numbers? I would rate the blueing at 96%? Holster wear on muzzle (both sides) and trigger sideplate are only two spots. Wooden grips are in excellent condition w/ the diamond points showing very little wear. The mags (2) have plastic bases. Are marked P.08 and FXO. Question #2 - Are these correct mags? The serial # for this pistol is 198. There is no letter under the serial number under barrel. My understanding is that this was the 198th pistol made in the year 1941. Question #3 - Does having a 3 digit serial number increase value at all? The brown holster also seems to be in very good condition, with Nazi proof mark and maker on back (I can't remember maker at the moment) The big flaw w/ the holster is that there is an American name and service number etched into the front of it below the flap. It is different than the name of the vetern listed above. I presume that it was picked up by the first fellow and then was traded and eventually ended up w/ the fighter pilot. Also included are the take-down tool which appears to have a Nazi proof mark, but it is to small for me to read at the moment. And the original letter from the 353rd ordnance officer authorizing the pilot the Luger as a war trophy. Interestingly, on the letter, the caliber is listed as .38. Perhaps a rear echelon army air force ordance guy didn't know caliber of Luger or a typo. I also purchased an original card board box of German 9mm ammo w/ all ammo unfired and the Zippo lighter w/ pilot's name (not sure if WWII or after) which I will keep w/ pistol. I got into a bidding war for the pistol and I am concerned that I overpaid for it. Based on the info above and my poor pics that I have included, could you guys give me ballpark on what my set is worth? thanks, Steve Attached Thumbnails

07-28-2010, 09:03 AM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Steve, Welcome to this forum and Luger collecting. Unnumbered black plastic based magazines are correct for late 1941 pistols. Only takedown tools for police use were numbered. One Luger in ten has less than four digits in it's serial number, so they are not that uncommon. I, personally, don't mind holsters that have a GI's name and number inscribed, as I think it's part of it's history. Other collectors might feel differently, so an inscription does have some negative effect on value. Regards, Norm

07-28-2010, 09:15 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	The 41BYF PO8s serialization began in the "n" suffix block mixed in with 41 code 42 PO8s, so your no suffix 41 would have followed those in the "z" block, so not early 41. Assuming all matching with 98% orig finish, I'd estimate your rig in the $2K range. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-28-2010, 09:18 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,919 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	Hi, I'm still relatively new to this, so my valuation is probably off... You have a particularly nice Mauser made Luger pistol. The "FXO" magazines manufactured by Haenel were made using extruded steel, and are the best Luger magazines available. Others can confirm this, but the name on your holster is part of its history and doesn't necessarily detract in value. From what I can see it is an original holster in very good condition. The magazines are worth $125 each, and the holster is probably worth $225-250. The "Bring Back" letter adds value to your rig. Perhaps 10-20%. If never refinished, the all matching Luger is collectible, and would command a premium. You can compare it to the commercial retail sales taking place by dealers like Simpson and Company in Illinois. They are about 30% higher than collector market pricing. So, what did the bidding war get you up to? Marc

07-28-2010, 09:20 AM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	So based on the LugerDoc's learned estimate, how did you do? dju

07-28-2010, 10:08 AM	#6
lthiardog New User Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I paid $3300, sad to say. I had a feeling I was fairly high, but I guess that's the risk of buying at auction. However, (perhaps rationalizing a bit) I am still happy with my purchase. I wanted a Nazi era pistol w/ holster and bringback paperwork. I know exactly where it came from and that it hasn't been messed with. My only regret, is I think I got one that's to nice to shoot. Guess that means I'll have to start looking for number 2! Thanks for the feedback. Especially the serialization info. My "bringback letter" is not the official form that I saw pictured on this forum, but the wording is the same, so I guess they didn't have any official forms at the squadron. It is clearly period, however. Steve

07-28-2010, 01:05 PM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	A bit on the high end but it is a nice piece that will hold its value and down the road you may look back and see this as your best investment. We can all hope... dju

07-29-2010, 05:37 AM	#8
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	Steve, A very nice rig in deed. Remember: You never pay too much for a gun, but you may pay it too early. Balder

10-18-2010, 10:15 PM	#9
whcoyote User Join Date: May 2008 Location: SW Virginia Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	As George would say, "If it's not worth $3300 today, it will be tomorrow".