Need Help IDing this single shot

gjamison · 06-28-2010, 06:17 PM

This a highly engraved single shot.

On the top of the barrel it reads Wiesbaden & Zella and on the
othe side reads C. Bartels Konigl: Hofbuchsenmacher. Hope i got that right. any and all information would be great. Thanks

Ron Smith · 06-28-2010, 07:18 PM

George,

I can't help with the maker, but it's obviously German. It's a beautiful old pistol.

Ron

wlyon · 06-28-2010, 08:13 PM

George
Looked in all my books, no luck. A very beautiful old firearm. What caliber is it? Thanks for sharing. Bill

sheepherder · 06-28-2010, 08:55 PM

Dueling pistol??? They were usually made in sets...I see a "2" on that one; do you have another with a "1" on it???

Here's a couple pics of a Remington rolling block target pistol...You can see the resemblance...

I've seen the Remington's displayed in cased sets; engraved, sometimes plated, always beautiful...

gjamison · 06-28-2010, 09:05 PM

looks to be 22cal, still looking for the other pistol

sheepherder · 06-28-2010, 09:25 PM

Can you show a pic of it broken open???

Fazer · 06-28-2010, 10:25 PM

I have seem Zella marked small frame martini style rifles before. Good looking piece, I must admit.

alterfritz · 06-28-2010, 10:32 PM

Is this post by you ? http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=401178

The only other information I could find about Bartels& Sohn is in a russian forum here: http://www.huntclub.ru/cgi/bbs/guns?r=85522&l=9270 which looks like a double barrel shotgun made by them which would fit into the time frame of this company given in the other forum.

What I could find out about Wiesbaden, the location of Bartels&Son is that it lies within the Former Duchy of Nassau which was founded 1806 and became part of the Kingdom of Prussia in 1866 so my wild guess would be that "Koenglicher Hofbuechsenmacher" (Gunmaker of the Royal Court) refers to the kingdom of Prussia. Again thats just my guess.

In another post here I found this quote: "We are told that Hofwaffen-Fabrik would be the Master gun makers place of business and BARTELS was a dealer rather than a maker and had a shop in Zella-Mehlis, a former gun making center." which would indicate that the "bartels&Son" hint is probably something that won't be very helpful in identifying the gun, as a dealer they would probably buy and sell anything and from any time period. But it makes for a good detective case

BTW there are a lot of "Bartels&Son" companies in Germany today, most are financial advisors, maintainance, hardware makers and so on. Nothing I could find that deals with guns.

crgkstnr · 07-05-2010, 12:06 AM

A fine looking pistol. The rear sight looks like it's on backwards.
Craig

Mauser 712 · 07-05-2010, 09:25 AM

Hello George,

You have an early German single shot Free Pistol in caliber .22 LR. I know a German author (who speaks English) who could correctly identify this pistol for you, but my computer is down at the moment and I do not have access to his contact information. I shall pass it on to you after I get my computer back in operation.

Lugerdoc · 07-05-2010, 10:04 AM

Beautifully engraved "parlor pistol". These low powered (European made ones usually in 6mm or US in .22 CB caps) were popular Circa 1900 for shooting in doors. TH

paid4c4 · 07-05-2010, 10:20 AM

Thanks for sharing a very beautiful old pistol. There's a dealer with a large display at the Louisville, KY National Gun Day Shows at the state fairgrounds who specializes in pistols like yours. If you don't have any luck with the ID I'll get his email address for you, he's very helpful. He helped ID a Smith & Wesson .44 Russian I have.
Bill

06-28-2010, 06:17 PM	#1
gjamison User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need Help IDing this single shot This a highly engraved single shot. On the top of the barrel it reads Wiesbaden & Zella and on the othe side reads C. Bartels Konigl: Hofbuchsenmacher. Hope i got that right. any and all information would be great. Thanks

06-28-2010, 07:18 PM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	George, I can't help with the maker, but it's obviously German. It's a beautiful old pistol. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-28-2010, 08:13 PM	#3
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,655 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,619 Times in 971 Posts	George Looked in all my books, no luck. A very beautiful old firearm. What caliber is it? Thanks for sharing. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

06-28-2010, 08:55 PM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Dueling pistol??? They were usually made in sets...I see a "2" on that one; do you have another with a "1" on it??? Here's a couple pics of a Remington rolling block target pistol...You can see the resemblance... I've seen the Remington's displayed in cased sets; engraved, sometimes plated, always beautiful... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

06-28-2010, 09:25 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Can you show a pic of it broken open??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

06-28-2010, 09:05 PM	#5
gjamison User Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	looks to be 22cal, still looking for the other pistol

06-28-2010, 10:25 PM	#7
Fazer Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Perth, West Oz Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	I have seem Zella marked small frame martini style rifles before. Good looking piece, I must admit.

06-28-2010, 10:32 PM	#8
alterfritz User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: California Posts: 63 Thanks: 3 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Is this post by you ? http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=401178 The only other information I could find about Bartels& Sohn is in a russian forum here: http://www.huntclub.ru/cgi/bbs/guns?r=85522&l=9270 which looks like a double barrel shotgun made by them which would fit into the time frame of this company given in the other forum. What I could find out about Wiesbaden, the location of Bartels&Son is that it lies within the Former Duchy of Nassau which was founded 1806 and became part of the Kingdom of Prussia in 1866 so my wild guess would be that "Koenglicher Hofbuechsenmacher" (Gunmaker of the Royal Court) refers to the kingdom of Prussia. Again thats just my guess. In another post here I found this quote: "We are told that Hofwaffen-Fabrik would be the Master gun makers place of business and BARTELS was a dealer rather than a maker and had a shop in Zella-Mehlis, a former gun making center." which would indicate that the "bartels&Son" hint is probably something that won't be very helpful in identifying the gun, as a dealer they would probably buy and sell anything and from any time period. But it makes for a good detective case BTW there are a lot of "Bartels&Son" companies in Germany today, most are financial advisors, maintainance, hardware makers and so on. Nothing I could find that deals with guns.

07-05-2010, 12:06 AM	#9
crgkstnr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 26 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A fine looking pistol. The rear sight looks like it's on backwards. Craig

07-05-2010, 09:25 AM	#10
Mauser 712 User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 42 Thanks: 4 Thanked 20 Times in 12 Posts	Hello George, You have an early German single shot Free Pistol in caliber .22 LR. I know a German author (who speaks English) who could correctly identify this pistol for you, but my computer is down at the moment and I do not have access to his contact information. I shall pass it on to you after I get my computer back in operation.

07-05-2010, 10:04 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Beautifully engraved "parlor pistol". These low powered (European made ones usually in 6mm or US in .22 CB caps) were popular Circa 1900 for shooting in doors. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-05-2010, 10:20 AM	#12
paid4c4 User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Northern Kentucky Posts: 62 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Thanks for sharing a very beautiful old pistol. There's a dealer with a large display at the Louisville, KY National Gun Day Shows at the state fairgrounds who specializes in pistols like yours. If you don't have any luck with the ID I'll get his email address for you, he's very helpful. He helped ID a Smith & Wesson .44 Russian I have. Bill