P38 questions

Wilhelm · 05-10-2010, 01:13 AM

I wish mine looked so nice! I have 44V. Stangely enough, it's an SVW45 and is commercial marked. It shouldn't exist.

Douglas Jr. · 05-12-2010, 10:42 AM

Wilhelm,

Did you show this gun at the P38 forum?
As you said, it shouldn't exist... very interesting.

Douglas

Wilhelm · 05-12-2010, 06:58 PM

I did. It's been looked at in person by various folks who are knowledgeable. Most say it's completely legit. The one's who say it isn't can't give concrete reasons why they won't accept it. They simply can't explain it so they won't accept it. But I didn't post it here to start controversy. Truth be told, I posted it for the benefit of those who are willing to admit that thay haven't seen everything and don't know everything. Other legitimate pistols marked just like this one MUST have survived the war. My thinking is that if I get the word out enough, eventually another will show up and a little more history about the P38 will be revealed in the process. It's still not as pretty as yours though!

Jason L · 05-12-2010, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilhelm

I did. It's been looked at in person by various folks who are knowledgeable. Most say it's completely legit. The one's who say it isn't can't give concrete reasons why they won't accept it. They simply can't explain it so they won't accept it. But I didn't post it here to start controversy. Truth be told, I posted it for the benefit of those who are willing to admit that thay haven't seen everything and don't know everything. Other legitimate pistols marked just like this one MUST have survived the war. My thinking is that if I get the word out enough, eventually another will show up and a little more history about the P38 will be revealed in the process. It's still not as pretty as yours though!

Start its own thread.......and we will analyze it

Lugerdoc · 05-13-2010, 10:00 AM

W, Since nazi production of the military SVW45 began in the mid "e" suffix and ended in the early "f" suffix block, I can see where one would be sceptical. Perhaps it was intended to be a Police contract pistol, but these have no suffix, so a real mystery. TH

Wilhelm · 05-13-2010, 05:38 PM

I agree, it's a mystery.......but it's real nonetheless. People used to be sceptical of Coelacanth repots too. Another one of these will turn up eventually.

Ron C. · 05-13-2010, 10:09 PM

Wilhelm,

Thank you so much for your kind words about the P.38 forum and it's moderators. I have also seen your nice comments on other weapons boards and forums. This pistol has been posted on the P.38 forum as well as examined by all three moderators in Louisville, KY in February of this year. On both the forum and at the live examination honest opinions were expressed and reasons given. These were passed on to Donal Williams who is a good friend and solid member of our forum. I am sure he passed them on to you. It is very unfortunate that these opinions do not live up to your expectations. But myself, Leon, and Mark stand by them. When another one turns up please let us know. In the mean time you may consider it a rare one of a kind. Thank you again for your nice comments.

Regards,
Ron

Wilhelm · 05-14-2010, 12:07 AM

I agree, Don is a VERY good guy. His words about this pistol were "right as rain". I just keep getting the word out. That's how we further the hobby. No one has seen it all and there are lots of neat new things waiting to be discovered! Most new ideas are disregarded at first but later accepted as true. This will be one of them. If this one exists, there were others made....at least 43 others anyway; very possibly more.

MarkC · 05-14-2010, 10:10 AM

Mauser war time production started with the no letter serial number and ended in the f block. The factory did not start from the NLS number every year. A "v" block would be produced in June of 1944 and have a byf44 slide. The commercial pistols had no letter suffix for their production. I think claiming that Mauser started a new series of "v" block SVW 45 commercial guns with 1v as the first pistol is a little preposterous. All through German production, for the P.38, the factories stuck to the same numbering sequence for their guns. 1-10000; 1a-10000a; 1b-10000b; etc.

You should consider that this pistol is some sort of "parts" gun rather than a separate production of commercial pistols in a letter block that was used in 1944.

Wilhelm · 05-14-2010, 10:49 AM

You have no idea what Mauser really did or did not do as there records were destroyed. I had an SVW45 k98 HT sniper that was found in a closet in pretty much pristine condition. It had a full Kriegs stock that also had a takedown disk installed. Additionally, the serial letter suffix was not stamped on the bolt handle but was present elsewhere. I was told by a supposed expert that the rifle had "issues" and was essentially told that it was worth whatever the parts were worth. He then offered to buy the rifle for about what the sniper buttplate alone was worth! Turns out that this expert was wrong. It was made about the same time this pistol was made and someone simply forgot to stamp the letter suffix on the handle. That rifle now sits in the collection of a VERY advanced Mauser Oberndorf collector who BTW believes this pistol to be correct as well. I GAVE it to the man because he had been looking for that rifle for a very, very long time. So, just because someone forgot to stamp a little "v" on the frame means nothing. It's entirely possible that the "v" doesn't even have anything to do with the letter block for all you, I or anyone else knows. And even if it were a parts gun, how would one explain the E/N and the SVW45 stamp in conjunction with a "v" block marking. Sorry, your line of thinking does not add up. Many many years ago, travelers and merchants returning from China on the silk road spoke of black and white striped bears living in trees and eating leaves. Those reports were laughed off by learned men as "preposterous". The unknowing masses needed to leave true scientific work to those who knew science. Turns out the "learned" men were wrong.

Ron Smith · 05-14-2010, 11:03 AM

Hey Guys...

Please clarify which pistol is being disputed. Getting confused here.

Wilhelm · 05-14-2010, 11:08 AM

The one I posted. I FREELY admit, one like it has never been seen before. But luger guys of all guys know, just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean it isn't real. Unfortunately, not everyone gets that.

MarkC · 05-14-2010, 11:29 AM

Ron,

The gun Douglas has is right as rain.

I am done with this conversation.

"It's entirely possible that the "v" doesn't even have anything to do with the letter block for all you, I or anyone else knows."

I can't have a rational discussion with someone who makes ridiculous statements like the above quote and wants to compare the existence of Panda Bears to German Gun production.

Mark

Wilhelm · 05-14-2010, 11:34 AM

That's probably best. You seem to give off alot of negative waves. I still love you though.

Edward Tinker · 05-14-2010, 11:10 PM

NOTE: Being disrespectful of other members will quickly lead to being banned.

And to those wondering where this is coming from, previous moderators I trust have told me that wilhelm likes to ride the line of acceptance on other forums.

Admin

Wilhelm · 05-14-2010, 11:59 PM

Calling my statements ridiculous and implying that I am irrational is disrespectful and insulting as well.

Edward Tinker · 05-15-2010, 12:53 AM

you are gone.

05-10-2010, 01:13 AM	#1
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	P38 questions I wish mine looked so nice! I have 44V. Stangely enough, it's an SVW45 and is commercial marked. It shouldn't exist. Attached Thumbnails __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

05-12-2010, 06:58 PM	#3
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	I did. It's been looked at in person by various folks who are knowledgeable. Most say it's completely legit. The one's who say it isn't can't give concrete reasons why they won't accept it. They simply can't explain it so they won't accept it. But I didn't post it here to start controversy. Truth be told, I posted it for the benefit of those who are willing to admit that thay haven't seen everything and don't know everything. Other legitimate pistols marked just like this one MUST have survived the war. My thinking is that if I get the word out enough, eventually another will show up and a little more history about the P38 will be revealed in the process. It's still not as pretty as yours though! __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

05-13-2010, 10:00 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	W, Since nazi production of the military SVW45 began in the mid "e" suffix and ended in the early "f" suffix block, I can see where one would be sceptical. Perhaps it was intended to be a Police contract pistol, but these have no suffix, so a real mystery. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

05-13-2010, 05:38 PM	#6
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	I agree, it's a mystery.......but it's real nonetheless. People used to be sceptical of Coelacanth repots too. Another one of these will turn up eventually. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

05-13-2010, 10:09 PM	#7
Ron C. User Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 44 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Wilhelm, Thank you so much for your kind words about the P.38 forum and it's moderators. I have also seen your nice comments on other weapons boards and forums. This pistol has been posted on the P.38 forum as well as examined by all three moderators in Louisville, KY in February of this year. On both the forum and at the live examination honest opinions were expressed and reasons given. These were passed on to Donal Williams who is a good friend and solid member of our forum. I am sure he passed them on to you. It is very unfortunate that these opinions do not live up to your expectations. But myself, Leon, and Mark stand by them. When another one turns up please let us know. In the mean time you may consider it a rare one of a kind. Thank you again for your nice comments. Regards, Ron __________________ Co-author of "The P.38 Pistol - Spreewerk Production" http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=21504

05-12-2010, 10:42 AM	#2
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Wilhelm, Did you show this gun at the P38 forum? As you said, it shouldn't exist... very interesting. Douglas

05-14-2010, 12:07 AM	#8
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	I agree, Don is a VERY good guy. His words about this pistol were "right as rain". I just keep getting the word out. That's how we further the hobby. No one has seen it all and there are lots of neat new things waiting to be discovered! Most new ideas are disregarded at first but later accepted as true. This will be one of them. If this one exists, there were others made....at least 43 others anyway; very possibly more. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

05-14-2010, 10:10 AM	#9
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 482 Thanks: 1 Thanked 126 Times in 29 Posts	Mauser war time production started with the no letter serial number and ended in the f block. The factory did not start from the NLS number every year. A "v" block would be produced in June of 1944 and have a byf44 slide. The commercial pistols had no letter suffix for their production. I think claiming that Mauser started a new series of "v" block SVW 45 commercial guns with 1v as the first pistol is a little preposterous. All through German production, for the P.38, the factories stuck to the same numbering sequence for their guns. 1-10000; 1a-10000a; 1b-10000b; etc. You should consider that this pistol is some sort of "parts" gun rather than a separate production of commercial pistols in a letter block that was used in 1944.

05-14-2010, 10:49 AM	#10
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	You have no idea what Mauser really did or did not do as there records were destroyed. I had an SVW45 k98 HT sniper that was found in a closet in pretty much pristine condition. It had a full Kriegs stock that also had a takedown disk installed. Additionally, the serial letter suffix was not stamped on the bolt handle but was present elsewhere. I was told by a supposed expert that the rifle had "issues" and was essentially told that it was worth whatever the parts were worth. He then offered to buy the rifle for about what the sniper buttplate alone was worth! Turns out that this expert was wrong. It was made about the same time this pistol was made and someone simply forgot to stamp the letter suffix on the handle. That rifle now sits in the collection of a VERY advanced Mauser Oberndorf collector who BTW believes this pistol to be correct as well. I GAVE it to the man because he had been looking for that rifle for a very, very long time. So, just because someone forgot to stamp a little "v" on the frame means nothing. It's entirely possible that the "v" doesn't even have anything to do with the letter block for all you, I or anyone else knows. And even if it were a parts gun, how would one explain the E/N and the SVW45 stamp in conjunction with a "v" block marking. Sorry, your line of thinking does not add up. Many many years ago, travelers and merchants returning from China on the silk road spoke of black and white striped bears living in trees and eating leaves. Those reports were laughed off by learned men as "preposterous". The unknowing masses needed to leave true scientific work to those who knew science. Turns out the "learned" men were wrong. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

05-14-2010, 11:03 AM	#11
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hey Guys... Please clarify which pistol is being disputed. Getting confused here. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-14-2010, 11:08 AM	#12
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	The one I posted. I FREELY admit, one like it has never been seen before. But luger guys of all guys know, just because you haven't seen it before doesn't mean it isn't real. Unfortunately, not everyone gets that. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others Last edited by Wilhelm; 05-14-2010 at 07:30 PM. Reason: dyslexic post!

05-14-2010, 11:29 AM	#13
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 482 Thanks: 1 Thanked 126 Times in 29 Posts	Ron, The gun Douglas has is right as rain. I am done with this conversation. "It's entirely possible that the "v" doesn't even have anything to do with the letter block for all you, I or anyone else knows." I can't have a rational discussion with someone who makes ridiculous statements like the above quote and wants to compare the existence of Panda Bears to German Gun production. Mark

05-14-2010, 11:34 AM	#14
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	That's probably best. You seem to give off alot of negative waves. I still love you though. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

05-14-2010, 11:10 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	NOTE: Being disrespectful of other members will quickly lead to being banned. And to those wondering where this is coming from, previous moderators I trust have told me that wilhelm likes to ride the line of acceptance on other forums. Admin

05-14-2010, 11:59 PM	#16
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	Calling my statements ridiculous and implying that I am irrational is disrespectful and insulting as well. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

05-15-2010, 12:53 AM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	you are gone.