Close-up picture of "Made in Japan"

[alvin]

Only 900 Astra carry the "Made in Japan" Hanzi stamp. It actually says "Made in Spain", but it's better (but wrongly) known as "Made in Japan" in the past. Does not matter -- probably none of those 900 guns have ever visited either Japan or China.

The three Chinese characters were applied in the factory before the gun was blued. No halo, but does have a "3D" look and feel. It is an export stamp in exotic form. A close-up of the stamp is posted below:

[alvin]

Monograph on C&R has one common issue, the B&W picture does not reveal the color of the small parts, and leaves lots of room for reader to wonder. Occasionally, a few color pictures are shown on BBQ guns. Probably plain guns do not deserve a color picture. On this thing, I have been wondered for a long time what's the finish of those pins.

The two big square pins were strawed. Most round pins have fire blue finish, but the round pin sitting under the rail has discoloration, reason unknown. And the big round pin on the rail itself is rust blued. The bolt, like Mauser, is white steel, but not as smooth as that of Mauser.

So far, that's on surface. But there is another unusual finish inside. Battery charging, will post a pix on that later.

[sheepherder]

Looks like a beautiful finish on that pistol. Pins are puzzling - is the internal lockwork substantially different from the Mauser??? If not, why the pins???

[alvin]

The operation concept is same as that of Mauser: short recoil + wedge lock under the bolt. But the implementation detail is different.

Not sure why Mauser was so sick on visible pins. Their solution was lock frame. Pins are actually unavoidable on guns, but WM tried to integrate things together and we refer those as "pivot", which performs pin's function but appears in another form, most hiding inside. Spanish obviously did not give a s*** to that. So they simply put pins on surface. Ugly? not as decent? practical? pretty? It's a taste, good or bad. Personally, I feel gun without surface pin is neater.

Lock frame design was not very popular on pistols. But modern gun like SIG 250 is applying this concept. That makes lots of sense on pistols with plastic frame -- pins are installed on a steel lock frame, so they can be easily removed and re-installed, and the outside plastic frame only plays a lock-frame-holder function. This concept was from Mauser more than 100 years ago.

[laoshi75]

"Only 900 Astra carry the "Made in Japan" Hanzi stamp. It actually says "Made in Spain", but it's better (but wrongly) known as "Made in Japan" in the past."

Alvin, do you mean that the 3 Hanzi translation is "made in Spain" ?
christian

[Douglas Jr.]

What is the letter in the middle of the two proofs on the right side (just above the grip panel)?
That is the code for the production year...

This pistols seem to the in MINT condition. Can we see the whole pistol, for God sake, Alvin?
Or is it a kind of Chinese torture? (can't avoid the kidding).

Douglas.

[alvin]

Yes, Doug, you will see the whole gun, but I don't have good lighting, so have to wait tommorrow's sunlight.

The middle mark above the grip is a tiny star over F, pix attached. What year is it?

Also, here is another unusual finish that I mentioned earlier. I have seen many C96s with mint bore (of course, I have seen more C96 without mint bore), but I have never seen this before -- this Astra's chamber is golden, more like strawed. It's hard for me to believe chamber need any finish, but metal under heat in certain temperature range could show straw color. I would guess the straw color was the result of chamber heat treatment.

[alvin]

Did a little research. So F says it was proofed by Eibar Proof House in 1933. s/n 27047. Another instance not far away "Made in Japan" instance was pictured in Antaris' monograph.

This darn thing is virtually new, with a few very minor handling marks. No stock came with it. And from the slot on the backstrap, looks like no stock has ever attached to it. It might be a shame to see an 77-year-old virgin, but I will leave this one alone without shooting though.

Back a while ago, I saw a small ring big grip transitional model (in Astra context, SRH is rarer than LRH), but the bore is not very good. So I gave it up. That's probably a mistake. Last year, there was another one in good shape in NH, but I missed that one. NH one is also posted below.

[laoshi75]

Alvin,

Absolutely wonderfull pistol, congratulations !
My understanding is that the correct translation of the 3 nice Hanzi ( re-guo-zhi) is not "made in Japan", but "made (for) Japan", or better "Japan contract".
christian

[sheepherder]

Alvin, that Astra 900 ser # 27047 seems to have a removable sideplate...Have you taken it off??? I would be interested in pics of the lockwork, if you have taken any...

For those who are encountering a Mauser or Astra at a show/shop and not sure if Japanese or Chinese contract, here are the symbols from my Mauser M1930 Chinese contract pistol...

[alvin]

Regarding those three Hanzi…. It’s “Made in Spain”. Here is a little bit more in-depth look at this:

Nation name translation in Chinese language was based on pronunciation of the nation. Major western powers were commonly assigned a single Hanzi (the 1st Hanzi) which pronounces not far away (not exact, but close enough) from the sound of the 1st or 2nd syllable of the nation’s name in that country’s native language. The second Hanzi was fixed “國” (“guo” -- country). For example, England, Français, Deutsch, America etc, were all translated this way.

One problem of this translation system was obvious: there are so many countries in the world, and if each one were assigned a single Hanzi, it would be hard to remember those translated names. The solution was simple: most country’s translated name was the full pronunciation. So, the translated name could be very long.

So, this language is ‘biased’ on nation name translation. Schroeder mentioned in Guns Report that the first two Hanzi translated into Spain, that’s correct, but he added an extra comment saying “Sun Country”, and that’s not right. A Hanzi commonly has a few meanings, and no meaning was assigned to it in the context of nation name translation. After all, it’s just by pronunciation of the leading sound of “España” (the sound before s). No more, no less.

====

Shame on me -- I cannot open it. Both the magazine floor and side plate are tight like being welded on. If I do that by force..... no, looks like it's not opened before, I will leave it alone.

That's the reason need a 80% one

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

Shame on me -- I cannot open it. Both the magazine floor and side plate are tight like being welded on. If I do that by force..... no, looks like it's not opened before, I will leave it alone.

That's the reason need a 80% one

Understood.

However...If curiosity gets to you, try leaving pistol in refrigerator (not freezer) for a couple hours...then try pushing sideplate off...

Heat expands...cold contracts...It might contract enough to loosen...

[laoshi75]

I don't want to modify this interesting thread, devoted to a
wonderfull and mint Astra into an Oriental linguistic debate, so this posting will be my last contribution on the problem. Even if the subject of the thread is precisely "Close-up picture of "Made in Japan".

Postino,

Sorry, the 3 Hanzi on your Mauser M1930 mean: "Made in Germany" (De-Guo-Zhi) as pictured on the photo below, and not "Chinese contract".

Alwin,

I agree with the first part of your reasonment, but not with the last one. As you know, the Hanzi "ri" is historically the traditionnal name of Japan in Chinese writting (and I believe in Japanese writting too) as pictured on the second photo below. It is unbelievable that they took precisely this historical Hanzi to translate the word "Spain" for... the Japanese market !

I note that Germany and Spain had two different stamping logics here:
The Mauser M1930 has the stamp "made in Germany" since
Germany is easy to translate in chinese (De-guo).
The spanish Astra is stamped "Japanese contract" (and not
"made in Spain") precisely because "Spain" is too long and difficult to translate in chinese or japanese, as you said (see picture 3 below). No more, no less.
Also, is Schroeder a reference in Oriental languages ?

christian

[Douglas Jr.]

Sorry for my delay to answer you. You already found the information though. Yes, the year is 1933. The same of my Royal MM34.
It a nice good in mint condition. If it had been sent to China, I wouldn't be in this shape.

Douglas.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by laoshi75

Postino,

Sorry, the 3 Hanzi on your Mauser M1930 mean: "Made in Germany" (De-Guo-Zhi) as pictured on the photo below, and not "Chinese contract".

Christian - Sorry if my comment misled you...It is an export commercial Mauser M1930, made by Mauser for the Chinese market; and as you stated, it does say "Made in Germany", to the best of my knowledge...

[alvin]

Originally Posted by laoshi75

Also, is Schroeder a reference in Oriental languages ?

Christian -- Most likely, Schroeder is not a reference in Oriental language. Probably Antaris helped him preparing that column in that month. But I Antaris is not a reference in Oriental language either.

Before I continue on "Made in Japan", let me tell a side story, The "Made in Germany" posted by Postie reminded me this story.

Back probably a year or two ago, one guy listed a Mauser 1930 with that "Made in Germany" Hanzi stamp on gunbroker.com, but he described it as a rare Chinese made C96 with Hanzi mark. Chinese made C96 being rare or not, real or fake is not off topic, but that particular one that he listed was a real Mauser. I saw it, and I sent him a message saying "the text says 'Made in Germany', not 'Made in China'". He indeed replied and the reply was interesting. He said that he had consulted a waiter in a local Chinese restaurant before he listed the gun, and the waiter told him "It's made in China, because I have never seen a real German product have Chinese charaters on them. This must be a fake, so called 'Mountain Village Edition'. Here is the rule of thumb -- if something is printed in Hanzi saying 'Made in (fill in a country other than China)', then it's made in China".

I have to agree, the waiter read those characters, and he definitely understood the meaning. Without knowing this type of gun, he's ..... I have to say his thought having a point -- not something has "Made in Germany" on it, then he would simply believe it's made in Germany. On the contrary, he made the opposite conclusion. He's wrong on this particular one, but the seller was convinced.

..... to be continued .... hold on

[alvin]

The previous story really has nothing to do with Japan or Spain, but was used illustrate the possible confusion on this type of marks.

Now, let's see why 日國 was Spain.

As you have noticed, modern translation of Spain is not 日國. Actually, Spain was not the only country that has two forms of translation.

Spain -- 日國 (sound of leading E + country), or 西班牙 (sound of "spaña")

Why 日國 was not commonly used today? it's too easy to confuse this name with Japan. So, from a bigger view, this change of translation reflected a new rising power in Asia, Japan obviously had more influence than Spain in East Asia country's political and economical life.

Japan is special case. Japanese language has a few thousand Hanzi (or Kanji). The country's name did not need any translation. When Japan is 日本國, and there is an European country named 日國, there would be lots of confusion.

But, from Spainish gunmakers point of view.... using 日國 is better than using 西班牙. It's shorter. Not many countries enjoy two-Hanzi-character translation, it's a previlege.

[alvin]

One thing that's hard to understand was.... why was "Made in Germany", or "Made in Spain" ever needed?

Offcially, there was no such a thing called "Chinese Contract". All Broomhandles bought by Chinese were commercial guns or post WWI military surplus, none of them was seperated numbered for Chinese. Why extra "Made in Germany" or "Made in Spain" in Hanzi though.....

One possibility was against flooding local copies. But that theory had a hole -- Unlike today's fake LV ladybag, or fake Vacheron wristwatch, it really did not take a genius to tell the quality difference of European broomhandles and most local copies. And, in most cases, people buying local copies were focusing on their low price, and people buying import products were focusing on their quality.... two different worlds never mix together and people would not change consuming behavior simply because you add a few Hanzi on the product. And, if applying previous waiter's theory, things really would become worse, now German or Spainard pushed some their customers away because their products now looked more like local products This world is a little bit complex here. And, needless to say, Chinese craftsmen could copy Hanzi better than copy Latin characters.

[alvin]

So much for the dizzling language stuffs.

Let's look at some detail. There is one Astra 900 with matching stock for sale in the coming GMA session Lot #2098, s/n 27030. Here is a little detail comparison:

[var99]

Not mine, but FYI, #27x07 ( hard to make out he third digit "9"?) in similar condition is up for sale via GB auction # 159199241. It seems odd that they are all in such good condition, if not refinished at some point, they must have sat in an arsenal most of their life?

Vince