Russian capture "Ku" Luger (NOW WITH GOOD PICS)

heers68 · 12-09-2009, 06:05 PM

I have been looking at a Luger for sale at a local store that is a Russian capture gun (half of the "X" mark behind the "Ku" marking on front left side of slide) seems to be very correct "Ku" gun with no suffix after serial and Luft stamps where they should be,41 date and byf. Also matching numbers including one of the Aluminum bottom mags (Other mag is mismatch and could'nt find Luft ampt on matching mag). Faint import mark on bottom of barrel and a Crown "N" there also. Gun is in very good shape with touch of pitting in only a few very small area's. Comes with a nice brown holster WW2 dated(cant remember year). Bore is excellent as are grips.

I am trying to figure out what the value of this gun is?? (ballpark) Is it possible for a Russian capture gun to be this correct and matched??Any info at all will help,please ask questions and I will try to answer them. THANKS! Kevin.

heers68 · 12-10-2009, 07:10 AM

Any estimates on value? How about that crown"N"?

Ron Wood · 12-10-2009, 08:16 AM

I have no idea about value, I don't track these guns closely. From what I have seen, these "Russian capture" guns can run from total dogs to near mint original. I suspect that the crown/N is the East German version.

DavidJayUden · 12-10-2009, 09:56 AM

I'm interested to know what they are asking. The figure of $800 comes to mind as it is a Ruskie capture/import gun and those little details will haunt its value. Better see something special in it to pay more. Of course less is better.
LEt me know what they are asking and what you end up doing.
DJU

heers68 · 12-10-2009, 06:14 PM

Thanks guys, Do you think the "Ku" aspect of this capture gun is a raising factor in the value??

DJU, Is your figure of $800 depending on it being a "Ku" gun? or is that an average value on a nice condition RC gun??

I will try to get pics so you folks can get a better idea about the gun...

heers68 · 12-12-2009, 08:14 AM

Here are a few pics of this Luger,sorry so bad all I had with me was my cell.Really wondering about the matching mag(has the# 2/1001 on it near base no others, and is very different construction than other unmatched mag that is an earlier eagle"63" marked Mauser mag),notice electro pencile marks right behind sideplate,grips have NO markings on inside,also no serial on the barrel only crown"N" and import mark.let me know what you think.....

Norme · 12-12-2009, 09:45 AM

Hi, The KU is a definite plus, all the other issues you have noticed are minuses, as is the left grip with the chip below the safety. The pictures you have posted are not clear enough to really appraise this rig, but I think you are safe going to $1,000.00. Regards

DavidJayUden · 12-12-2009, 10:26 AM

"DJU, Is your figure of $800 depending on it being a "Ku" gun? or is that an average value on a nice condition RC gun??"

I guess I'm not getting past the rebarrelled Russian Capture thing. Others will have to answer the KU issue, but it seems like no matter the merits, this one should be regarded as a nice shooter that is easy too look at.
Now having said that the 2 mags. shown and the holster do bump it up several hundred dollars in my estimation.
dju

heers68 · 12-12-2009, 10:29 AM

Thanks Norme, I will try to get pics with my camera soon. Still amazed as a Russian capture that the numbers match!? Maybe because I,m a K98 guy too and they are TOTALLY mismatched as RC guns! Wonder if a different facility did pistols??What is your oppinion on the mag marked "2/1001"? Also,is it correct for there to be no serial# on the barrel on these Ku's?

DJU, appreciate your learned input! So you believe this to be rebarreled since there is no serial# on barrel?? Why are these mags so different in construction? I think numbers are forced on the 2/1001 mag and I am wondering if its a post WW2 mag?

Much appreciated! Kevin.

OLDJARHEAD · 12-12-2009, 10:39 AM

Hello Kevin

Why the big secret on the asking price?

Like Norme said if you can buy the rig for $1000.00 or less ,buy it.

Best regards.

Mike Dunham

heers68 · 12-12-2009, 10:45 AM

Mike, Fellow with the gun is undecided(antique dealer that is a Civil war buff,not German gun savvy) on his asking price,I believe he will entertain offers. He mentioned $1600 when I first asked because someone told him these Ku's were Krieghoffs! But I think he will come around if I come educated...

Ron Wood · 12-12-2009, 11:16 AM

It is an East German rework of a RC gun. It was rebarreled when it was reworked and the magazines with the 2/1001 markings are of East German manufacture using the original WWII tooling. The all matching numbers could be original (if the gun was in good shape there would be no reason to replace parts) or they could be replacements numbered to match during the rework. Even though I am not very well qualified to judge the value of a gun like this, given all the plus and minus factors, with a nice holster and two magazines I would think a fair value would be between $800 and $1100.

OLDJARHEAD · 12-12-2009, 11:18 AM

Hello Kevin,

Now I get it. Those “antique dealers” as rule kind of fall into that kind of stuff, usually for a song. Now you have to educate them so they can maximize their return.

Regards.

Mike Dunham

heers68 · 12-12-2009, 03:51 PM

Ron, THANKS for info on mag and value! East Germans probably did better work on these than the Russians.

O.K. here are the good pics,enjoy and feel free to give oppinions!! Kevin.

heers68 · 12-12-2009, 03:55 PM

More......

Norme · 12-12-2009, 04:49 PM

Hi, I like it better and better. The gun is in nicer shape than I thought and the holster is decent too. The gun has had an interesting history and it has not been messed with by some faker. I think you could go $200.00-$300.00 higher. Regards

cma22inc · 12-12-2009, 06:58 PM

Looks like that might ba a Finnish loading tool with a "SA" mark on it.

Flip it over and see if the back is flat or has a groove in it.

Flat would be a Fin tool that does not match the rig.

heers68 · 12-12-2009, 10:43 PM

Thanks again Norme, I'm starting to like it too.

Matt, I noticed that too,used to see that mark on various field gear that the Germans gave the Finns. I have a feeling that the holster,2nd mag,and tool were added to put a rig together. Then again,I suppose the Russians might have captured a good bit of Finn gear too..

cma22inc · 12-12-2009, 10:58 PM

If the rig gets parted out please let me know I'd like in on the tool since it is SA marked as I collect Finnish Army gear.

Thanks!

Ron Wood · 12-12-2009, 11:57 PM

That is a much better holster than I expected. I agree with Norme, you could bump my estimate by $200-$300.

12-09-2009, 06:05 PM	#1
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Russian capture "Ku" Luger (NOW WITH GOOD PICS) I have been looking at a Luger for sale at a local store that is a Russian capture gun (half of the "X" mark behind the "Ku" marking on front left side of slide) seems to be very correct "Ku" gun with no suffix after serial and Luft stamps where they should be,41 date and byf. Also matching numbers including one of the Aluminum bottom mags (Other mag is mismatch and could'nt find Luft ampt on matching mag). Faint import mark on bottom of barrel and a Crown "N" there also. Gun is in very good shape with touch of pitting in only a few very small area's. Comes with a nice brown holster WW2 dated(cant remember year). Bore is excellent as are grips. I am trying to figure out what the value of this gun is?? (ballpark) Is it possible for a Russian capture gun to be this correct and matched??Any info at all will help,please ask questions and I will try to answer them. THANKS! Kevin. Last edited by heers68; 12-12-2009 at 03:45 PM.

12-10-2009, 08:16 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	I have no idea about value, I don't track these guns closely. From what I have seen, these "Russian capture" guns can run from total dogs to near mint original. I suspect that the crown/N is the East German version. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-12-2009, 08:14 AM	#6
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	A few bad cell phone pics.... Here are a few pics of this Luger,sorry so bad all I had with me was my cell.Really wondering about the matching mag(has the# 2/1001 on it near base no others, and is very different construction than other unmatched mag that is an earlier eagle"63" marked Mauser mag),notice electro pencile marks right behind sideplate,grips have NO markings on inside,also no serial on the barrel only crown"N" and import mark.let me know what you think..... Attached Thumbnails

12-12-2009, 11:16 AM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	It is an East German rework of a RC gun. It was rebarreled when it was reworked and the magazines with the 2/1001 markings are of East German manufacture using the original WWII tooling. The all matching numbers could be original (if the gun was in good shape there would be no reason to replace parts) or they could be replacements numbered to match during the rework. Even though I am not very well qualified to judge the value of a gun like this, given all the plus and minus factors, with a nice holster and two magazines I would think a fair value would be between $800 and $1100. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-12-2009, 03:51 PM	#14
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Finally good pics!! Ron, THANKS for info on mag and value! East Germans probably did better work on these than the Russians. O.K. here are the good pics,enjoy and feel free to give oppinions!! Kevin. Attached Thumbnails

12-10-2009, 07:10 AM	#2
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Any estimates on value? How about that crown"N"?

12-10-2009, 09:56 AM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm interested to know what they are asking. The figure of $800 comes to mind as it is a Ruskie capture/import gun and those little details will haunt its value. Better see something special in it to pay more. Of course less is better. LEt me know what they are asking and what you end up doing. DJU

12-10-2009, 06:14 PM	#5
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks guys, Do you think the "Ku" aspect of this capture gun is a raising factor in the value?? DJU, Is your figure of $800 depending on it being a "Ku" gun? or is that an average value on a nice condition RC gun?? I will try to get pics so you folks can get a better idea about the gun...

12-12-2009, 09:45 AM	#7
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi, The KU is a definite plus, all the other issues you have noticed are minuses, as is the left grip with the chip below the safety. The pictures you have posted are not clear enough to really appraise this rig, but I think you are safe going to $1,000.00. Regards

12-12-2009, 10:26 AM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	"DJU, Is your figure of $800 depending on it being a "Ku" gun? or is that an average value on a nice condition RC gun??" I guess I'm not getting past the rebarrelled Russian Capture thing. Others will have to answer the KU issue, but it seems like no matter the merits, this one should be regarded as a nice shooter that is easy too look at. Now having said that the 2 mags. shown and the holster do bump it up several hundred dollars in my estimation. dju

12-12-2009, 10:29 AM	#9
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Norme, I will try to get pics with my camera soon. Still amazed as a Russian capture that the numbers match!? Maybe because I,m a K98 guy too and they are TOTALLY mismatched as RC guns! Wonder if a different facility did pistols??What is your oppinion on the mag marked "2/1001"? Also,is it correct for there to be no serial# on the barrel on these Ku's? DJU, appreciate your learned input! So you believe this to be rebarreled since there is no serial# on barrel?? Why are these mags so different in construction? I think numbers are forced on the 2/1001 mag and I am wondering if its a post WW2 mag? Much appreciated! Kevin.

12-12-2009, 10:39 AM	#10
OLDJARHEAD User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 299 Thanks: 18 Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts	Hello Kevin Why the big secret on the asking price? Like Norme said if you can buy the rig for $1000.00 or less ,buy it. Best regards. Mike Dunham

12-12-2009, 10:45 AM	#11
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mike, Fellow with the gun is undecided(antique dealer that is a Civil war buff,not German gun savvy) on his asking price,I believe he will entertain offers. He mentioned $1600 when I first asked because someone told him these Ku's were Krieghoffs! But I think he will come around if I come educated...

12-12-2009, 11:18 AM	#13
OLDJARHEAD User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 299 Thanks: 18 Thanked 19 Times in 9 Posts	Hello Kevin, Now I get it. Those “antique dealers” as rule kind of fall into that kind of stuff, usually for a song. Now you have to educate them so they can maximize their return. Regards. Mike Dunham

12-12-2009, 03:55 PM	#15
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More>>>>> More...... Attached Thumbnails

12-12-2009, 04:49 PM	#16
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi, I like it better and better. The gun is in nicer shape than I thought and the holster is decent too. The gun has had an interesting history and it has not been messed with by some faker. I think you could go $200.00-$300.00 higher. Regards

12-12-2009, 06:58 PM	#17
cma22inc User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa Bay FL Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Looks like that might ba a Finnish loading tool with a "SA" mark on it. Flip it over and see if the back is flat or has a groove in it. Flat would be a Fin tool that does not match the rig. __________________ Matt A. Tampa, FL (C&R) Collector

12-12-2009, 10:43 PM	#18
heers68 User Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: N.C. Posts: 24 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks again Norme, I'm starting to like it too. Matt, I noticed that too,used to see that mark on various field gear that the Germans gave the Finns. I have a feeling that the holster,2nd mag,and tool were added to put a rig together. Then again,I suppose the Russians might have captured a good bit of Finn gear too..

12-12-2009, 10:58 PM	#19
cma22inc User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa Bay FL Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	If the rig gets parted out please let me know I'd like in on the tool since it is SA marked as I collect Finnish Army gear. Thanks! __________________ Matt A. Tampa, FL (C&R) Collector

12-12-2009, 11:57 PM	#20
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,035 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,242 Times in 1,719 Posts	That is a much better holster than I expected. I agree with Norme, you could bump my estimate by $200-$300. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction