Replace P08 barrell

Viper_block_50 · 08-24-2009, 02:38 PM

Hello!
The barrell on my P08 is quite worn out but I have a replacement barrell.

What is the best way to remove the old barrell without making any scratches or damaging the old one?

Bjorn
Norway

sheepherder · 08-24-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper_block_50

Hello!
The barrell on my P08 is quite worn out but I have a replacement barrell.

What is the best way to remove the old barrell without making any scratches or damaging the old one?

Bjorn
Norway

I just now noticed that you're in Norway...(not that there's anything wrong with that)...

I use these -

http://cgi.ebay.com/PO8-LUGER-BARREL...mZ370184828329

http://cgi.ebay.com/BARREL-VISE-W-5-...mZ370166886199

But it would depend on how many you plan on swapping...or if you can resell them when you're done with your one...

Is your "new" barrel an original Luger barrel??? Or an aftermarket barrel from one of the many mfg's??? If original Luger mfg, it should be good to torque up without machining...If it's a Numrich or Sarco barrel, don't be surprised if it screws in and the front sight is on the side or bottom of the pistol...

Lugerdoc · 08-25-2009, 09:45 AM

Bjorn, As mentioned above, the correct vise and wrench are essential, and experience. It would be less expensive to have a gunsmith experienced with the work, do it for you. TH

sheepherder · 08-25-2009, 05:54 PM

Just in case you're thinking that you could clamp the barrel in a padded bench vise and turn the receiver off with a Crescent wrench or whatever...

I did just that, some 30+ years ago...

It took me weeks to straighten the twist out of the receiver...

...And I never did trust it after that...

Ice · 08-25-2009, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

It took me weeks to straighten the twist out of the receiver...

...And I never did trust it after that...

How the heck did you straighten it? It gives me the creeps just thinking about that job.

Charlie

sheepherder · 08-25-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice

How the heck did you straighten it? It gives me the creeps just thinking about that job.

Charlie

I shudder thinking about it too...

One side of the receiver was actually farther forward than the other...Kind of like a "Z"...Plus one side rose up more than the other, towards the back...

I just kept carefully applying pressure, past the bending point, and kept checking with the toggle assembly, grip frame, and toggle axle...

You know that pic that someone posted not too long ago??? Of the receiver broken in several places??? That could have been it...

...Except that I bought a used receiver from a guy who specialized in P-38 parts and sold it with that receiver in it...

I sometimes wonder whatever happened to that P-38 guy...lemme dig out the receipt...

"Harold C. Bruffett, Highland Park, Michigan"
Military Pistols
Luger and P-38 Parts and Accessories

The receipt says $6.00

chrisr1995 · 09-09-2009, 11:39 PM

"Harold C. Bruffett, Highland Park, Michigan"
Military Pistols
Luger and P-38 Parts and Accessories

That is right by my neck of the woods.....unfortunatley...I hate Detroit....any-who, This guy would be a nice source for me. How did you find him? Web site???

John Sabato · 09-10-2009, 10:39 AM

He used to advertise in the classified ads of EVERY issue of the American Rifleman magazine decades ago... I don't know that he is still around anymore...

sheepherder · 09-10-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisr1995

"Harold C. Bruffett, Highland Park, Michigan"
Military Pistols
Luger and P-38 Parts and Accessories

That is right by my neck of the woods.....unfortunatley...I hate Detroit....any-who, This guy would be a nice source for me. How did you find him? Web site???

He was at 22 Sturtevant Ave back then...No phone number...

I did business with him in late 60's/early 70's...American Rifleman sounds right...

chrisr1995 · 09-15-2009, 08:08 PM

Thanks. I did a google map/satilite of that address and it's typical Detroit real estate now. House is burned at that address with the business next door on the corner burned to the ground as well. I'm sure it was a nice street back then. Now maybe 5 or 6 houses are left on both sides of the street. They love to just burn each other out down there. I grew up in Subs of Detroit, lived in Detroit and worked in Detroit. It is as bad if not worse than everything bad you hear about it. I'm just waiting for the citizens to finish up burning everything down so nothing is left. THEN maybe it can start to come back. There is just block after block of nothing but empty fields where houses used to be. They just LOVE to burn the city down

He must be getting up in age as well. I hope to God he made it out with is life!! Thanks for the inf. Guy's.

Hawkeye · 12-23-2009, 02:56 AM

You might think about building a Brass Rod that will fit tightly into the Barrels when you are trying to twist them off. Ive replaced two six inch Barrels, and if you don't have the support rod it is easy to bend a six inch barrel with the kind of Torque you will need to R&I the barrels.
Also what i have found out is that when setting the head space with the Go and No Go gages , using a Chamber reamer is great . but a little cutting really gees a very long way in this. Take your time here ,do a little cut then Check it with the gages , if you dont , then expect to be removing the Barrel again after you find out the Head Space is to much and the extractor doesn't latch on the Case rim. Usually stove piping is caused by this if the extractor does happen to latch an the gun Does fire.
Lugers are pretty tough , ive seem guys shooting them with excessive Head Space and not have any trouble ,but after shooting the tell tale sign of this is that the inside of the gun is covered with powder residue from venting past the shell casing..

LugerVern · 12-23-2009, 09:51 AM

Most gunsmiths would cut the old barrel to relieve the torque required to remove the old barrel and avoid the chance of messing up the receiver.

Oh, yes I did mess up a receiver about 30 years ago too

It was not funny at the time however and took some time to get it straight again. It happened very quickly, it does not take much to make it happen, trust me.
Not all are hard to remove, but some are and require extra special attention.

If it is a new barrel, you are going to need a setback tool to get the sight aligned properly. You can do it by hand but this requires a slow hand and much more time.

Good luck

Vern

sheepherder · 12-23-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

You might think about building a Brass Rod that will fit tightly into the Barrels when you are trying to twist them off.

A squib rod works well for this (and is brass). Brownell's has them, but you can find them cheaper elsewhere...

Hawkeye · 12-23-2009, 07:04 PM

Ive heard that about the Squib Rods postino , the one i made on my Lathe was the Bronze valve stem from a Big water valve.
My Gunsmith says to put a rod in any barrel your changing out.
As far as the front site lining up , a German Gunsmith told me that he would get them close so that the Extractor grove lines up perfectly and you get a good amount of torque on the Barrel Flange.
If the site was within a Quarter inch of lining up , they would just go ahead and twist the Barrel a little when the seating was done.
He said before WW2 when he was a kid working at the DMW Factory ,they used a form of shellac on the threads ,and the torque really wasn't all that much on locking in the barrels. It just that all these years of being on those threads is what makes them difficult to remove.
He loved the idea of using High Heat Thread Lock ,but they didn't have that back then .

Dwight Gruber · 12-23-2009, 07:19 PM

Dale,

Are you still in contact with the German DWM gunsmith?

--Dwight

Hawkeye · 12-24-2009, 12:29 AM

Yes i am , i haven't talked to him in about 3 months ,but he taught me a lot about Luger's . I first met him when i first bought my C96 ,he restored it for me and did a beautiful job on it i might say.
Of course he will talk your ear off ,and have you rolling in the isles if you let him with the stories he tells.
He never was in the German Military because of a very bad knee he has that he shattered while working on a Farm.
He was 20 when the War ended, he hid in a cellar for days with his sister.
But by working in the Arms Factories the Government didn't mess with him a whole lot. He said when the DMW plant was disabled he was transfered to a sheet metal stamping outlet and he stamped the receivers out for the new STG 44 rifles.
They were so controlled that one place didn't make everything for them ,several places did and they were assembled elsewhere , but he never knew where that was.

MFC · 12-24-2009, 01:03 AM

Dwight,
PLEASE keep us posted if you make contact with him. I'm sure the forum could compile a long list of questions for him.

Hawkeye · 12-24-2009, 05:37 AM

I Emailed him and i haven't heard back just yet ,but he always responds .
He sure knows Luger's and P 38 pistols.
I don't know, but he told me that most of the Luger's that were built just before the war were generally issued to high Ranking Officers or officials .
They were just to time consuming and expensive to make , but the older you get the more you respect the fact that no other pistol feels as good in your hand than a Luger.
The Colt SAA is close ,but the Luger is like an extension of your hand and they seem to point and aim all by themselves.

Hawkeye · 12-25-2009, 02:05 AM

The Brass rod only keeps you from bending down on the Barrel as you attempt to Remove it and install the other.
A 4 inch barrel isn't going to be as susceptible to this as a six or an 11 are.
But you would be surprised at how easily they do bend ,the brass is to protect your rifling ,and if you can find any Bronze thats even better ,.
The new barrel will twist a little and not harm anything , but i wouldn't go over even 1/8th if it were on my gun.
Mostly to line up the site , i have had to straighten several Barrels and Slides , and i have the Jigs to do both.
A barrel can be bent and not noticeable to the eye or to any square , the Brass rod will tell you real fast if that is the Case.
I don't touch my Collector Luger's ,but i tweak my shooters all of the time.
You can make sights for the Artillery model out of those off a 98 Mauser or even those off an SKS rifle and they look just like the originals.
The Naval Rear sights are little more tricky to do , because in no way can i reproduce a rear Toggle Link , but they can be reproduced if you have the time .

sheepherder · 12-25-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick W.

Just curious..............:-) How does the brass rod help the barrel from twisting or distorting?

It keeps it from being crushed flat by that barrel vise with the 1/2" grade 8 bolts and aluminum inserts...

Actually, for the barrel vise, I have several ground steel rods from Travers that I insert...8.75mm and 8.8mm being the most used (for 9mm barrels)...depending on whether it's new or used...

I never even thought about the barrel twisting...I grip it right up by the radius; and torque the receiver pretty gently...I also extended [read: made up new] the brass inserts for the receiver wrench so that no steel on steel is involved...makes for fewer marks...

08-24-2009, 02:38 PM	#1
Viper_block_50 New User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Replace P08 barrell Hello! The barrell on my P08 is quite worn out but I have a replacement barrell. What is the best way to remove the old barrell without making any scratches or damaging the old one? Bjorn Norway

08-25-2009, 09:45 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Bjorn, As mentioned above, the correct vise and wrench are essential, and experience. It would be less expensive to have a gunsmith experienced with the work, do it for you. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-10-2009, 10:39 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	He used to advertise in the classified ads of EVERY issue of the American Rifleman magazine decades ago... I don't know that he is still around anymore... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-24-2009, 01:03 AM	#17
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Dwight, PLEASE keep us posted if you make contact with him. I'm sure the forum could compile a long list of questions for him. __________________ Mike C.

08-25-2009, 05:54 PM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,195 Thanks: 1,414 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Just in case you're thinking that you could clamp the barrel in a padded bench vise and turn the receiver off with a Crescent wrench or whatever... I did just that, some 30+ years ago... It took me weeks to straighten the twist out of the receiver... ...And I never did trust it after that...

09-09-2009, 11:39 PM	#7
chrisr1995 User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Detroit Suberbia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"Harold C. Bruffett, Highland Park, Michigan" Military Pistols Luger and P-38 Parts and Accessories That is right by my neck of the woods.....unfortunatley...I hate Detroit....any-who, This guy would be a nice source for me. How did you find him? Web site???

09-15-2009, 08:08 PM	#10
chrisr1995 User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Detroit Suberbia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks. I did a google map/satilite of that address and it's typical Detroit real estate now. House is burned at that address with the business next door on the corner burned to the ground as well. I'm sure it was a nice street back then. Now maybe 5 or 6 houses are left on both sides of the street. They love to just burn each other out down there. I grew up in Subs of Detroit, lived in Detroit and worked in Detroit. It is as bad if not worse than everything bad you hear about it. I'm just waiting for the citizens to finish up burning everything down so nothing is left. THEN maybe it can start to come back. There is just block after block of nothing but empty fields where houses used to be. They just LOVE to burn the city down He must be getting up in age as well. I hope to God he made it out with is life!! Thanks for the inf. Guy's.

12-23-2009, 02:56 AM	#11
Hawkeye User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You might think about building a Brass Rod that will fit tightly into the Barrels when you are trying to twist them off. Ive replaced two six inch Barrels, and if you don't have the support rod it is easy to bend a six inch barrel with the kind of Torque you will need to R&I the barrels. Also what i have found out is that when setting the head space with the Go and No Go gages , using a Chamber reamer is great . but a little cutting really gees a very long way in this. Take your time here ,do a little cut then Check it with the gages , if you dont , then expect to be removing the Barrel again after you find out the Head Space is to much and the extractor doesn't latch on the Case rim. Usually stove piping is caused by this if the extractor does happen to latch an the gun Does fire. Lugers are pretty tough , ive seem guys shooting them with excessive Head Space and not have any trouble ,but after shooting the tell tale sign of this is that the inside of the gun is covered with powder residue from venting past the shell casing..

12-23-2009, 09:51 AM	#12
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Most gunsmiths would cut the old barrel to relieve the torque required to remove the old barrel and avoid the chance of messing up the receiver. Oh, yes I did mess up a receiver about 30 years ago too It was not funny at the time however and took some time to get it straight again. It happened very quickly, it does not take much to make it happen, trust me. Not all are hard to remove, but some are and require extra special attention. If it is a new barrel, you are going to need a setback tool to get the sight aligned properly. You can do it by hand but this requires a slow hand and much more time. Good luck Vern

12-23-2009, 07:04 PM	#14
Hawkeye User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ive heard that about the Squib Rods postino , the one i made on my Lathe was the Bronze valve stem from a Big water valve. My Gunsmith says to put a rod in any barrel your changing out. As far as the front site lining up , a German Gunsmith told me that he would get them close so that the Extractor grove lines up perfectly and you get a good amount of torque on the Barrel Flange. If the site was within a Quarter inch of lining up , they would just go ahead and twist the Barrel a little when the seating was done. He said before WW2 when he was a kid working at the DMW Factory ,they used a form of shellac on the threads ,and the torque really wasn't all that much on locking in the barrels. It just that all these years of being on those threads is what makes them difficult to remove. He loved the idea of using High Heat Thread Lock ,but they didn't have that back then .

12-23-2009, 07:19 PM	#15
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Dale, Are you still in contact with the German DWM gunsmith? --Dwight

12-24-2009, 12:29 AM	#16
Hawkeye User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes i am , i haven't talked to him in about 3 months ,but he taught me a lot about Luger's . I first met him when i first bought my C96 ,he restored it for me and did a beautiful job on it i might say. Of course he will talk your ear off ,and have you rolling in the isles if you let him with the stories he tells. He never was in the German Military because of a very bad knee he has that he shattered while working on a Farm. He was 20 when the War ended, he hid in a cellar for days with his sister. But by working in the Arms Factories the Government didn't mess with him a whole lot. He said when the DMW plant was disabled he was transfered to a sheet metal stamping outlet and he stamped the receivers out for the new STG 44 rifles. They were so controlled that one place didn't make everything for them ,several places did and they were assembled elsewhere , but he never knew where that was.

12-24-2009, 05:37 AM	#18
Hawkeye User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I Emailed him and i haven't heard back just yet ,but he always responds . He sure knows Luger's and P 38 pistols. I don't know, but he told me that most of the Luger's that were built just before the war were generally issued to high Ranking Officers or officials . They were just to time consuming and expensive to make , but the older you get the more you respect the fact that no other pistol feels as good in your hand than a Luger. The Colt SAA is close ,but the Luger is like an extension of your hand and they seem to point and aim all by themselves.

12-25-2009, 02:05 AM	#19
Hawkeye User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The Brass rod only keeps you from bending down on the Barrel as you attempt to Remove it and install the other. A 4 inch barrel isn't going to be as susceptible to this as a six or an 11 are. But you would be surprised at how easily they do bend ,the brass is to protect your rifling ,and if you can find any Bronze thats even better ,. The new barrel will twist a little and not harm anything , but i wouldn't go over even 1/8th if it were on my gun. Mostly to line up the site , i have had to straighten several Barrels and Slides , and i have the Jigs to do both. A barrel can be bent and not noticeable to the eye or to any square , the Brass rod will tell you real fast if that is the Case. I don't touch my Collector Luger's ,but i tweak my shooters all of the time. You can make sights for the Artillery model out of those off a 98 Mauser or even those off an SKS rifle and they look just like the originals. The Naval Rear sights are little more tricky to do , because in no way can i reproduce a rear Toggle Link , but they can be reproduced if you have the time .