Returning to Dealer After 3 Day Period.

Most reputable dealers allow about a 3-day period for one to examine a piece and return if not satisfied. But what if some time later, serious doubts arise re the provenance of a P-08? How common is it for the dealer to refund if the evidence is sufficient, but after a significant time period?

[HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr]

I can't see any reason for him to allow you to get you'r money back.

That would be like giving you a lifetime warranty on a 60-100 year old item.

I can't speak for other dealers but as I know i dont sell any deffect items and if someone buy a gun from me and returns a year later with a crack in it it's his problem.


Regards HÃ?Â¥kan



http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Hmm. V.interesting. Over here in UK, when we could buy such items, it was a case of caveat emptor. This is because you first applied to purchase the weapon by type ie pistol, rifle, and were granted authority to purchase a weapon of a particular calibre. This could take between one and 24 weeks, depending on the police authority's views on privatey-owned firearms. With the document, the FAC, in your sticky little hand, you went off to the dealer, looked at the gun and decided to buy the weapon on the spot - there was no taking it away to try - this would put you in the category of being in illegally in possession of a fiream - 1 to 5 years in the pokey. If you ahdn't bought the weapon by the time your FAC came up for renewal, it lasted three years at that time, you lost the right ot purchase, and had to start all over. So, having bought it, you were required to send in your FAC and have the weapon officially entered on it by the issuing authorities, that weapon then being tied forver to that particular certificate. If at a later date you found out that its provenance was dubious, you were quite within your rights to try to sell it back to the dealer, but he was not obliged to buy it. You could also surrender it to the police authorities, if you really wanted to, in return for nothing. Or try to pass it on to another dealer. If you were successful in doing this, that weapon and its serial number was removed from your firearms certificate for ever, the dealer had to notify the firearms certificate issuing authority that he had purchased your pistol, and you were back to square one again - without a gun. Starting up the whole process over again would have had an unsympathetic response from the firearms certificate issuing authorities, who would want to know why you got rid of a gun so quickly, and then wanted another one, apparently identical. This could put you in danger of being classified as a 'dealer', and subject to ever-more stringent checks and outpourings of money, as well as making you take up a professional business when all you wanted to do was get a 'good' gun. As an example of getting the paperwork wrong, a friend of mine bought a relatively inexpensive black powder revolver, took it home only to find that it shot onto a point three feet left of his point of aim, and a very close examination revealed that the cylinder axis pin was off-centre. There was nothing that could be done, simply a manufacturing fault. He took it back the following day, and the dealer simply changed it for another one, and altered the FAC. A home visit by a firearms inspecting officer [and yes they do exist] a few months later revealed this apparent discrepancy and my pal and the dealer were in deep plop, finding themsleves in court on the same day on offences against the firearms act of 1937 etc.... for a. illegal possession of a weapon for which he had no valid certificate, b. and having an illegal entry on his FAC. The dealer got done for a. illegally transacting a firearm

b. making an alteration to an FAC without authority, and c. aiding the illegal possession of a firearm by a person not authorised to hold it. Result? Suspension of FAC for the shooter for a period of not less than 5 years, and seizure of all his other weapons as a result. The dealer was suspended from trading for a period of three years, had his licence to trade revoked and was fined �£5,000 for his pains. This, remember, was for a black powder revolver. Had it been a modern [comparatively, that is], weapon like the Luger, which can REALLY be used to kill folks, unlike the old-fashioned and harmless black powder device, they would probably have faced jail sentences of up to 5 years.

Hmmmmmm.


TF

[tom]

The law is generally pretty definative. Basically, there is no time limit for returning an item if there has been a "Material misrepresentation, omission or concealment" of fact that would have, had it been known by the purchaser at time of purchase, rendered the purchase void.


Thats a legalese way of saying if someone hoodwinked (Gun is represented to have original finish but has actually been restored as a common example) you and you didn't spot it, a fraud has been committed. Regardless of when the fraud is discovered, you are legally entitled to a refund.


There are several well known cases involving some big name dealers where this sort of thing has occurred and, Guess wht? They had to refund the purchaser.


In one case of which I am aware, the judge ruled that the dealer in question, by virtue of his standing as a "Known world-wide expert" on the type of firearm "Must have known or should have known" that the pistol had been "enhanced".


Unfortunately, to get this remedy, one has to get lawyers involved and it gets expensive...


Tom

[Johnny Peppers]

I have known of several cases just like Tom was talking about. If you are buying what is supposedly a collectible firearm always have the dealer describe what you are buying. I was contacted by a buyer that after one year found out that a pistol he had bought was refinished and in a fake shipping box. He had the ad describing the pistol, and also had the dealer's invoice also describing the pistol as all original and in the original shipping box. He was prepared to take the dealer to court, but the dealer happily refunded the original purchase price with no hesitation.

The dealer didn't offer a lifetime warranty, but he did misrepresent what he was selling.

[tom]

It would cause some "raised eyebrows" if a list of which dealers had been involved in such shenanigans were ever posted..NAPCA has some members who have no compunction about naming names, and they frequently do so in AUTOMAG. But when they make a mistake, there is hell to pay in the legal department.


Tom