Did I break this Luger? Bolt stuck open

mattnashbrowns · 07-08-2009, 04:45 PM

Hello everyone,

I'm afraid I made an overconfident-newbie mistake with this Luger.

It appears to be a 1917 DWM police model. Frame and receiver serial numbers match, but none of the others do.

The bolt hold-open wasn't working, and the previous owner's effects included a receipt for a "hold open latch w/spring", so I decided to follow the disassembly instructions in the hilariously-translated Parabellum manual.

I did this successfully, and reassembled it successfully too. I decided to count myself lucky and rest my aching fingers for a few hours.

On returning to the pistol, I asked myself "Why didn't you inspect the hold-open while you had the thing apart, like you were going to?"

"Now is not the time to start pointing fingers," I replied. "Let's not argue. Besides, taking it apart and putting it back together is fun!"

So, I got it back apart and identified the hold open latch w/spring. Manipulating it a little bit caused it to pop right out, and I saw that it was supposed to clamp onto an axle in its little groove, which I did. I put the magazine into the "bifurcated stock" and the little hold-open popped up, just like it wasn't doing before I got started.

I did a little chair dance. Success!

But I guess I was too eager to try it out, and put the whole mess back together wrong. As soon as I pulled the toggle back, the whole receiver assembly shifted backwards, so that now the front of the receiver is about 3/8" back from the point where it would be flush with the stock.

I am able to work the bolt release lever and remove and replace the trigger guard. I can pull the toggle back just a hair, but nothing seems to release it.

I found a previous thread with what sounds like a similar problem, and the poster eventually got the thing apart well enough to fix the spring on the hold open, but I can't see how to get it back apart. The hold open release latch inside the chamber that is referenced in that post is not visible in my gun's chamber.

Any ideas? I am happy to supply pictures, some of which may include circles and arrows. I will supply the paragraph to go on the back of each one to explain what each one is.

Thanks in advance,
Matt

Ice · 07-08-2009, 04:59 PM

Matt, welcome to the forum! Please supply photos showing your problem. We have any number of members here who are true experts and will be happy to help. I'm certain that your problem will be resolved in no time.

Best

Charlie

mattnashbrowns · 07-08-2009, 05:33 PM

OK, I am attaching photos here.

Ice · 07-08-2009, 06:33 PM

It sounds like you have a stuck holdopen. Try this link; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...stuck+holdopen

I hope it will help and that this post is new to you.

Charlie

lugerholsterrepair · 07-08-2009, 06:48 PM

Matt, It is possible to observe the holdopen spring and bar in the chamber. It is along the right side below the frame rail. You can't see a lot of it but it is possible to take a small flat head screwdriver and push down on it just behind the flat spring. You should also be able to see a small slot right at the rear of the spring...This should release the bolt to come forward. Try it out...I locked open one of my pistols and it worked fine.

Jerry Burney

mattnashbrowns · 07-08-2009, 08:11 PM

OK, thanks guys. That actually was the thread I read before, but I wasn't having any luck fearfully poking my finger into the bolt opening. This time I used a paperclip while my wife held the flashlight, so I could securely hold the toggle and fiddle with the spring.

sheepherder · 07-08-2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattnashbrowns

OK, thanks guys. That actually was the thread I read before, but I wasn't having any luck fearfully poking my finger into the bolt opening. This time I used a paperclip while my wife held the flashlight, so I could securely hold the toggle and fiddle with the spring.

...???...But did you get it to disengage???

If so, what did you have to do to get it to release???

mattnashbrowns · 07-08-2009, 10:14 PM

While pulling back on the toggle with my right hand, I gently depressed the tiny black tab underneath the highly visible retracting-nickel-triangle thing, using a straightened paper clip in my left hand. I was able to slowly release the toggle at that point.

The problem is not totally fixed, though -- the bolt won't hold open when a magazine is inserted. The piece of the mag that serves as a follower is the chintzy little knurled knob that you can use to depress the magazine spring. Instead of pushing straight up on the hold open spring, it kind of pushes its way around the side of the spring and gets stuck there. I can see it doing this if I put an empty mag in the disassembled frame.

It's also possible that I messed up the spring while trying to make it lay flat... but the whole assembly just doesn't seem to want to work.

Lugerdoc · 07-09-2009, 08:58 AM

Matt, It's easy to bend your HO spring up to far when installing HO into the frame, if you're not familiar with the procedure. I do have new HO springs available, if necessary. TH

Vlim · 07-09-2009, 10:01 AM

Sounds like the magazine is the problem. The button should be tight and straight against the body. If there is too much space between the button and the mag body, it can get stuck somewhere.

A good trick is to try it with the grips (or at least the righ hand grip) removed. Visibility and tinkering space will improve drastically.

Quote:

the hilariously-translated Parabellum manual

Which one was that?

mattnashbrowns · 07-09-2009, 10:52 AM

It's pretty clear that the retractor knob on the magazine is not right. It is tilted away from the mag body at the top. Is it safe to try to straighten it with a pair of pliers?

The manual that the previous owner had appears to be an English translation of the original manual, published by Shooter's Bible in 1964. It is a little red book, about 4" by 6", with a price of $1 shown on the front. It has three fold-outs in the back, each showing extremely detailed ink drawings of the pistol from various angles, with and without cutaways.

The translation maintains a fully German sensibility, which makes some of the intro stuff seem whimsical, but when it gets into the technical details it becomes almost incomprehensible.

Vlim · 07-09-2009, 11:09 AM

The button is pinned inside the follower, so you could either try to force it in, or gently tap it out with the right pin punch, straighten the button pin and then reseat it into the follower.

Alternatively, you could get a replacement magazine like a modern MecGar and use that for testing.

07-08-2009, 04:45 PM	#1
mattnashbrowns User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Did I break this Luger? Bolt stuck open Hello everyone, I'm afraid I made an overconfident-newbie mistake with this Luger. It appears to be a 1917 DWM police model. Frame and receiver serial numbers match, but none of the others do. The bolt hold-open wasn't working, and the previous owner's effects included a receipt for a "hold open latch w/spring", so I decided to follow the disassembly instructions in the hilariously-translated Parabellum manual. I did this successfully, and reassembled it successfully too. I decided to count myself lucky and rest my aching fingers for a few hours. On returning to the pistol, I asked myself "Why didn't you inspect the hold-open while you had the thing apart, like you were going to?" "Now is not the time to start pointing fingers," I replied. "Let's not argue. Besides, taking it apart and putting it back together is fun!" So, I got it back apart and identified the hold open latch w/spring. Manipulating it a little bit caused it to pop right out, and I saw that it was supposed to clamp onto an axle in its little groove, which I did. I put the magazine into the "bifurcated stock" and the little hold-open popped up, just like it wasn't doing before I got started. I did a little chair dance. Success! But I guess I was too eager to try it out, and put the whole mess back together wrong. As soon as I pulled the toggle back, the whole receiver assembly shifted backwards, so that now the front of the receiver is about 3/8" back from the point where it would be flush with the stock. I am able to work the bolt release lever and remove and replace the trigger guard. I can pull the toggle back just a hair, but nothing seems to release it. I found a previous thread with what sounds like a similar problem, and the poster eventually got the thing apart well enough to fix the spring on the hold open, but I can't see how to get it back apart. The hold open release latch inside the chamber that is referenced in that post is not visible in my gun's chamber. Any ideas? I am happy to supply pictures, some of which may include circles and arrows. I will supply the paragraph to go on the back of each one to explain what each one is. Thanks in advance, Matt

07-08-2009, 05:33 PM	#3
mattnashbrowns User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, I am attaching photos here. Attached Images

07-08-2009, 06:48 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Matt, It is possible to observe the holdopen spring and bar in the chamber. It is along the right side below the frame rail. You can't see a lot of it but it is possible to take a small flat head screwdriver and push down on it just behind the flat spring. You should also be able to see a small slot right at the rear of the spring...This should release the bolt to come forward. Try it out...I locked open one of my pistols and it worked fine. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-09-2009, 08:58 AM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Matt, It's easy to bend your HO spring up to far when installing HO into the frame, if you're not familiar with the procedure. I do have new HO springs available, if necessary. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-08-2009, 04:59 PM	#2
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Matt, welcome to the forum! Please supply photos showing your problem. We have any number of members here who are true experts and will be happy to help. I'm certain that your problem will be resolved in no time. Best Charlie

07-08-2009, 06:33 PM	#4
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	It sounds like you have a stuck holdopen. Try this link; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...stuck+holdopen I hope it will help and that this post is new to you. Charlie

07-08-2009, 08:11 PM	#6
mattnashbrowns User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, thanks guys. That actually was the thread I read before, but I wasn't having any luck fearfully poking my finger into the bolt opening. This time I used a paperclip while my wife held the flashlight, so I could securely hold the toggle and fiddle with the spring.

07-08-2009, 10:14 PM	#8
mattnashbrowns User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	While pulling back on the toggle with my right hand, I gently depressed the tiny black tab underneath the highly visible retracting-nickel-triangle thing, using a straightened paper clip in my left hand. I was able to slowly release the toggle at that point. The problem is not totally fixed, though -- the bolt won't hold open when a magazine is inserted. The piece of the mag that serves as a follower is the chintzy little knurled knob that you can use to depress the magazine spring. Instead of pushing straight up on the hold open spring, it kind of pushes its way around the side of the spring and gets stuck there. I can see it doing this if I put an empty mag in the disassembled frame. It's also possible that I messed up the spring while trying to make it lay flat... but the whole assembly just doesn't seem to want to work.

07-09-2009, 10:52 AM	#11
mattnashbrowns User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It's pretty clear that the retractor knob on the magazine is not right. It is tilted away from the mag body at the top. Is it safe to try to straighten it with a pair of pliers? The manual that the previous owner had appears to be an English translation of the original manual, published by Shooter's Bible in 1964. It is a little red book, about 4" by 6", with a price of $1 shown on the front. It has three fold-outs in the back, each showing extremely detailed ink drawings of the pistol from various angles, with and without cutaways. The translation maintains a fully German sensibility, which makes some of the intro stuff seem whimsical, but when it gets into the technical details it becomes almost incomprehensible.

07-09-2009, 11:09 AM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	The button is pinned inside the follower, so you could either try to force it in, or gently tap it out with the right pin punch, straighten the button pin and then reseat it into the follower. Alternatively, you could get a replacement magazine like a modern MecGar and use that for testing.