East German rework; new to me

Ice · 04-04-2009, 07:26 PM

The seller said that it was an East German rework; I bought it as a shooter. It has some forced numbers, a nice thick reblue that doesn't appear to have been buffed too much and even some matching numbers. A CAI import mark is discreetly stamped under the replaced/unnumbered barrel. It was chock full of cosmoline when I got it though the barrel, mag well and outside was clean. The mag has an aluminum base that was painted with some kind of black enamel that has chipped off somewhat. After field stripping and cleaning I took it to the range. It functions perfectly and is quite accurate. The grips don't appear to be VOPO but they fit good enough.

I'm thinking, since this is a shooter, of re-strawing the proper parts and adding repro wooden grips. Do you think I should bother? Do you think this is a VOPO gun?

I'm really pleased with it; its just what I wanted.

Photos below for your valued comments and thoughts.

Thanks!

Charlie

tomaustin · 04-04-2009, 10:11 PM

to be a shooter, but it looks too good. i hate to mess it up. i would be tempted to buy another one for my shooter and i really want one to shoot...........

383 magnum · 04-05-2009, 12:00 AM

My shooter has grips just like yours. It has forced match number and the only original marking left is "P.08" on the frame. The barrel is also new on mine. It is a great shooter. The only problem I had was the breech block wore out after a firing a few rounds. Luckily, I hadn't had the gun that long and my dealer agreed to reimburse me for the cost of a replacement breech block.

phatrick88 · 04-05-2009, 03:52 AM

I'd definitely ditch the plastic grips and straw the appropriate parts, but that's just me and to each their own. It's never going to be really desireable or collectable as far as Lugers are concerned, so do what makes you happy as it's your gun and you're the one who has to look at it everyday!

sheepherder · 04-05-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice

The seller said that it was an East German rework...The grips don't appear to be VOPO but they fit good enough...

I got a pair of grips that look just like those off eBay (along with a set of Russian grips)...They appear to be newer resin castings of "Black Widow" grips, but poorly done...one of mine is warped; probably cured too quickly...neither fit...

383 magnum · 04-05-2009, 09:21 AM

I thought about ordering some repro wooden grips for mine but decided against it because I don't have another Luger with plastic grips. Plus, I didn't want to spend money "upgrading" a shooter. I would be curious if anyone knows the history of these guns. I thought mine may be a Russian refurb.

Ice · 04-05-2009, 09:52 AM

LOL! I already have a pair of repro wooden grips that I used when shooting a 1917 Artillery. I wised up a long time ago and no longer shoot valuable weapons with irreplacable parts. I even replaced the genuine numbered firing pin in the rework with a repro. Now I have to replace the numbered extractor.

I did a search on the forum using "VOPO" and came up with some interesting history. It seems that the East Germans even manufactured new parts and frames using WW2 equipment in the 1950's.

Charlie

Vlim · 04-05-2009, 10:00 AM

Any under barrel markings, like the VoPo crown/N?

This looks like one of the surplus pistols that found their way onto the market when the Russians decided to clean up their arsenals. These pistols all show signs of a quick refurbishing program, consisting of a dip blue finish and the low quality plastic grips.

So not a true VoPo (unless the barrels is crown/N proofed), but one of the pistols from the large Russian stockpiles of seized German handguns.

383 magnum · 04-05-2009, 12:36 PM

Don't the VOPO Lugers have a circle in the middle of the grips? I'm leaning toward these being Russian refurbs. I just looked at the barrel on mine. It has what appears to be a K, plus a 9 and and S.

Ice · 04-05-2009, 01:05 PM

Barrel markings: A "K over 6" in a circle at the rear of the barrel with a badly stamped "6, 9 or G" just over that. On the bottom of the barrel band is a "D" - with a tail on it. There is a nice clear Crown over N on the left side by the serial number.

I did some checking and yes, the VOPO guns are supposed to have the circle grips.

Charlie

Vlim · 04-05-2009, 03:06 PM

Looks like it started life as a commercial DWM. No military markings, no chamber date and a crown/N on the receiver.

Lugerdoc · 04-06-2009, 09:55 AM

Ice, THe marking that you described, sound to me to be Portugese. I would bet that you have a Portugese rebarrelled luger, made up from both commerical & military mixed parts. The grips are also of Portugese manufacture. Lugerdoc

Vlim · 04-06-2009, 10:55 AM

Tom,

You just woke up the researcher in me: Are there any documented, verifyable leads known to you about the Portuguese link you describe?

Not doubting your excellent knowledge, just trying to tick off some boxes here

Ice · 04-06-2009, 11:00 AM

This gets thicker and thicker. Does anybody else think that the gun may be a Portuguese rework instead of a Russian rework? I doubt that the Russians would slap Port grips on one of their guns. Its just a very nice shooter to me but any other thoughts on its lineage are appreciated.

Charlie

Vlim · 04-06-2009, 12:29 PM

I wouldn't call the grips 'Portugese' but rather 'cheap repro'

There have been a number of examples coming onto the market since the 1990s that all had some sort of cheaply made repro-grips on them. This lends to the idea that some surplus reseller got a buch of P08s either without original grips or with badly worn/damaged grips and decided to have some quick repros made in order to create a 'complete P08' for resale.

This is also the main reason for the Russian surplus theory. Russia was always very good in producing cheap looking plastic crap

Ice · 04-06-2009, 12:58 PM

Since its a CAI import anything is possible.

Thanks

Charlie

Lugerdoc · 04-07-2009, 09:08 PM

Vlim, Ice et al; I have a couple of sets of these poorly cast repro grips and am not sure if they are Portugese or Finnish, but have seen these with the shiney inside and 2 round depressions (not holes) on reworks from both countries, so they may have been supplied by the importer. They are not made by any US supplier that I'm aware of in the last 30 years and I've not seen them on Russian or DDR reworks that I've purchased from the imports in the same time frame. The only reference that I have seen written on the Portugese rework marking is in Costanzo's "WOL Proofmarks" related proofs #31 & 53. I have also seen these (kk/10 in a circle & M54 in cicle) mixed with "9 in a circle", KK/4, T" and several others primarily on extruded magazines with crude light wood bottoms and on unnumbered barrels that are replacements. Perhaps someone from FGS, who brough in a lot of Portugese lugers would like to comment. Also I think that you researchers might want to explore the Portuges/Finnish connection. TH

383 magnum · 04-07-2009, 10:34 PM

Tom,
This is really interesting. I just figured my refurb was Russian capture.

04-04-2009, 07:26 PM	#1
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	East German rework; new to me The seller said that it was an East German rework; I bought it as a shooter. It has some forced numbers, a nice thick reblue that doesn't appear to have been buffed too much and even some matching numbers. A CAI import mark is discreetly stamped under the replaced/unnumbered barrel. It was chock full of cosmoline when I got it though the barrel, mag well and outside was clean. The mag has an aluminum base that was painted with some kind of black enamel that has chipped off somewhat. After field stripping and cleaning I took it to the range. It functions perfectly and is quite accurate. The grips don't appear to be VOPO but they fit good enough. I'm thinking, since this is a shooter, of re-strawing the proper parts and adding repro wooden grips. Do you think I should bother? Do you think this is a VOPO gun? I'm really pleased with it; its just what I wanted. Photos below for your valued comments and thoughts. Thanks! Charlie Attached Thumbnails

04-04-2009, 10:11 PM	#2
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	looks like a nice clean piece....i bought a 1936 rework to be a shooter, but it looks too good. i hate to mess it up. i would be tempted to buy another one for my shooter and i really want one to shoot...........

04-06-2009, 09:55 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ice, THe marking that you described, sound to me to be Portugese. I would bet that you have a Portugese rebarrelled luger, made up from both commerical & military mixed parts. The grips are also of Portugese manufacture. Lugerdoc __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-07-2009, 09:08 PM	#17
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Vlim, Ice et al; I have a couple of sets of these poorly cast repro grips and am not sure if they are Portugese or Finnish, but have seen these with the shiney inside and 2 round depressions (not holes) on reworks from both countries, so they may have been supplied by the importer. They are not made by any US supplier that I'm aware of in the last 30 years and I've not seen them on Russian or DDR reworks that I've purchased from the imports in the same time frame. The only reference that I have seen written on the Portugese rework marking is in Costanzo's "WOL Proofmarks" related proofs #31 & 53. I have also seen these (kk/10 in a circle & M54 in cicle) mixed with "9 in a circle", KK/4, T" and several others primarily on extruded magazines with crude light wood bottoms and on unnumbered barrels that are replacements. Perhaps someone from FGS, who brough in a lot of Portugese lugers would like to comment. Also I think that you researchers might want to explore the Portuges/Finnish connection. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-05-2009, 12:00 AM	#3
383 magnum User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 120 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	My shooter has grips just like yours. It has forced match number and the only original marking left is "P.08" on the frame. The barrel is also new on mine. It is a great shooter. The only problem I had was the breech block wore out after a firing a few rounds. Luckily, I hadn't had the gun that long and my dealer agreed to reimburse me for the cost of a replacement breech block.

04-05-2009, 03:52 AM	#4
phatrick88 User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: MN Posts: 54 Thanks: 7 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I'd definitely ditch the plastic grips and straw the appropriate parts, but that's just me and to each their own. It's never going to be really desireable or collectable as far as Lugers are concerned, so do what makes you happy as it's your gun and you're the one who has to look at it everyday!

04-05-2009, 09:21 AM	#6
383 magnum User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 120 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I thought about ordering some repro wooden grips for mine but decided against it because I don't have another Luger with plastic grips. Plus, I didn't want to spend money "upgrading" a shooter. I would be curious if anyone knows the history of these guns. I thought mine may be a Russian refurb.

04-05-2009, 09:52 AM	#7
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	LOL! I already have a pair of repro wooden grips that I used when shooting a 1917 Artillery. I wised up a long time ago and no longer shoot valuable weapons with irreplacable parts. I even replaced the genuine numbered firing pin in the rework with a repro. Now I have to replace the numbered extractor. I did a search on the forum using "VOPO" and came up with some interesting history. It seems that the East Germans even manufactured new parts and frames using WW2 equipment in the 1950's. Charlie

04-05-2009, 10:00 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Any under barrel markings, like the VoPo crown/N? This looks like one of the surplus pistols that found their way onto the market when the Russians decided to clean up their arsenals. These pistols all show signs of a quick refurbishing program, consisting of a dip blue finish and the low quality plastic grips. So not a true VoPo (unless the barrels is crown/N proofed), but one of the pistols from the large Russian stockpiles of seized German handguns.

04-05-2009, 12:36 PM	#9
383 magnum User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 120 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Don't the VOPO Lugers have a circle in the middle of the grips? I'm leaning toward these being Russian refurbs. I just looked at the barrel on mine. It has what appears to be a K, plus a 9 and and S.

04-05-2009, 01:05 PM	#10
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Barrel markings: A "K over 6" in a circle at the rear of the barrel with a badly stamped "6, 9 or G" just over that. On the bottom of the barrel band is a "D" - with a tail on it. There is a nice clear Crown over N on the left side by the serial number. I did some checking and yes, the VOPO guns are supposed to have the circle grips. Charlie

04-05-2009, 03:06 PM	#11
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Looks like it started life as a commercial DWM. No military markings, no chamber date and a crown/N on the receiver.

04-06-2009, 10:55 AM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Tom, You just woke up the researcher in me: Are there any documented, verifyable leads known to you about the Portuguese link you describe? Not doubting your excellent knowledge, just trying to tick off some boxes here

04-06-2009, 11:00 AM	#14
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	This gets thicker and thicker. Does anybody else think that the gun may be a Portuguese rework instead of a Russian rework? I doubt that the Russians would slap Port grips on one of their guns. Its just a very nice shooter to me but any other thoughts on its lineage are appreciated. Charlie

04-06-2009, 12:29 PM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	I wouldn't call the grips 'Portugese' but rather 'cheap repro' There have been a number of examples coming onto the market since the 1990s that all had some sort of cheaply made repro-grips on them. This lends to the idea that some surplus reseller got a buch of P08s either without original grips or with badly worn/damaged grips and decided to have some quick repros made in order to create a 'complete P08' for resale. This is also the main reason for the Russian surplus theory. Russia was always very good in producing cheap looking plastic crap

04-06-2009, 12:58 PM	#16
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	Since its a CAI import anything is possible. Thanks Charlie

04-07-2009, 10:34 PM	#18
383 magnum User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 120 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Tom, This is really interesting. I just figured my refurb was Russian capture.