Artillery Rig?

FNorm · 03-25-2009, 09:55 PM

Does anyone have a picture of the back of the holster with the shoulder stock attached? I figured out the boot down at the muzzle end, but can't figure out how the thin strap is supposed to run.

FN

Lugerdoc · 03-26-2009, 07:50 AM

Norm, Instalation of shoulder strap: Thread one end of strap thur lower hole of stock, up thru one side of the cross strap on back of holster and out thru the upper hole of stock. Do the same on the other side with other end of strap. The lenght of what you thread thru will need to be adjusted so that the holes in strap will line up for insertion of the brass studs. Don't forget to put on dual mag pouch, BEFORE installing 2nd strap end. TH

FNorm · 03-26-2009, 01:46 PM

Thanks! But a small problem. What is the small metal plate for? Approx 3 inches from one strap end is an approx 2 inch metal strip. What's that for? I'm going to have to flatten the riven heads to get them through the stock.

FN

lugerholsterrepair · 03-26-2009, 02:08 PM

Approx 3 inches from one strap end is an approx 2 inch metal strip. What's that for?

It's to tell us you have a reproduction strap. I suggest you flatten the rivets with a grinder and when they are flat enough pry off the metal strip and toss it in the ash can.

To install a strap properly put it around the back of your neck with the stock & holster in front between your knees, stock towards you. Thread the ends of the strap into the top holes of the stock, down into the stock block and back into the stock.

Tom says.. Don't forget to put on dual mag pouch, BEFORE installing 2nd strap end. This is ONLY if it is a Navy. Artillery Luger rigs NEVER have this double mag pouch worn on the strap. They were belt worn.
BUT..Since yours is a repro rig I suspect it came with the strap type double mag pouch.

Jerry Burney

FNorm · 03-26-2009, 03:14 PM

Thanks, Jerry. YUP repo rig. and, not Navy. I did find one old pic on this forum, showing the strap over the top of the holster (studded for holster top closure) is screwed into the stock. Is that right? I think this pic was from a Turkish artillery. Yes, I did get the double mag pouch. I'll put in on the strap just so it doesn't get lost.

When I get done, I'll see if I can send picts.

FN

lugerholsterrepair · 03-26-2009, 03:24 PM

Fn, Yes..The strap you describe screwed onto the stock comes over the top of the holster and is the closure strap, attaching to the front closure strap attached to the front face of the holster.
The double mag pouch goes onto the left strap if the pistol is to be worn on the right side. It would end up on the front of the chest.

Jerry Burney

George Anderson · 03-26-2009, 04:25 PM

Does this help?

lugerholsterrepair · 03-26-2009, 04:50 PM

Nah George, You forgot to put the holster on! HAHA...

Jerry

George Anderson · 03-26-2009, 04:56 PM

Never do...too much stress.

FNorm · 03-26-2009, 08:58 PM

Thanks, All!

I got it now! The double magazine pouch is built for a belt anyway. Wouldn't fit right on a shoulder strap. 90 degrees out. But It'll be there for now just so I don't lose it.

FN

Lugerdoc · 03-27-2009, 08:50 AM

Norm, If your LPO8 shoulder strap has a plate attached toward one end, it is probably one of the Persian repros that were offered on the market many years ago. With those you would have to thread the "non-plate" end thru the stock & holster and that gets too tricky to explain here. Tom

FNorm · 03-27-2009, 10:04 AM

Lugatdoc, et al: I'm new to all of this. Just picked up my first Lugars at sort of an an estate sale. Guy's business needed $$ and he says he got these from his father-in-law. He was selling all his guns, some M1 carbines, a Garand, w/ jeep scabbard, etc. So I picked up two, then later went back for another. The best of the lot is a 1920's commercial in 7.65, just about mint. Straw, etc. And the 1917 artillery, But it has been re-blued. Reconditioned?? I also got a bunch of other loose stuff. Some magazines, two tools, spare handgrips, etc.

So I bought two holsters through Numrich. Dunno the supplier. Working on this artillery and figuring out how to rig it, I thought it strange that the stock hadn't been drilled for the screws. I conditioned/softened the holsters with Fiebing's Care- 4. I also have a leather hobby and hate the smell of Lexol. This stuffs better. For deeper or damaged leather use the same brand only saddle oil.

Anyway, I digress. I got two tools with the whole mess, and figured I'd put those in the holster pouches. Noticed that one had a number on it. It matched the 1920 commercial! Light bulbs went off! The number on the stock also matched the commercial! Possible? or a happy accident?

FN

George Anderson · 03-27-2009, 10:15 AM

Photos of stock and marked tool are needed to give a proper answer. As a Luger skeptic I would suspect that the two numbered stock and tool are fakes. Sound even like a buy from a dealer in C????Cove in Texas.

FNorm · 03-27-2009, 10:25 AM

Stock and tool each have four numbers....

Big Norm · 04-10-2009, 03:52 PM

Oh Wow! Another Norm around here!

I wonder why you would take the metal plate off of the strap as Jerry suggested? You already know that its a repro. Grinding the rivets might expose a weakness and/or discoloration in the strap. Once you get the hang of how the strap looks after assembly, you can thread the strap though all the appropriate, and admittedly complicated holes, by using the other end of the strap. It takes a lot more time but its doable.

I agree with Anderson that its a mess trying to take the stock off of the strap/holster after everything is properly assembled. It also takes some of the fun out of shooting the artillery, if you decide to try to shoot your gun with the stock with all the leather attachments still on. It can also screw up the appearance of the stock irons leather cup if you do it too often. That cup fits pretty snug and a replacement cup is a hard thing to find. It probably would be better to buy a repro stock for when you decide to do some shooting at the range and leave your assembled rig for display.
Big Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 04-10-2009, 04:11 PM

I wonder why you would take the metal plate off of the strap as Jerry suggested? Because it dosen't belong there, it causes great difficulty in threading the strap thru the stock & holster and once installed it sticks out like a boner at church services. Truly one of the dumber things I have seen repro artists employ.

Jerry Burney

Big Norm · 04-10-2009, 04:19 PM

Norm,
I just reread your posts. I see that the serial number on the stock matches the serial number on the commercial 1920. I don't know if the law has been changed, but luger stocks can only be legally used on artilleries and navies and not on P-08's. They are also legal on the 1900's thru 1906's using an 'Ideal' stock. They are not legal on P08's. But laws can be, and are, frequently changed. So I could be corrected here.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 04-10-2009, 05:49 PM

Jerry,
as usual, you are absolutely right. I haven't seen many of these straps with the metal plate on them, so I have to shoot from the hip a little in responding. But it sounds like the rivets go through the metal plate as well as the leather. By going through the leather, a weak point or two, in the strap is created. Removing the metal may only weaken the leather more.

I would guess too that there is a 'depending on' situation here too. Norm may take this rig out in the field hunting. Those holes could then enlargen and the whole strap could break. I do not have a concealed weapons permit so I have to carry my pistols outside in full view, even while hunting with a valid license. So I know that the straps could very well be exposed to a lot of wear from both brush and weather while hunting.

I used to carry a shooter Luger with me while hunting too, until it backfired on me once. Once is once too many times. While coming in from hunting, I spotted a dangerous tree stump at the side of the trail that I felt was threatening my life and well being. So I emptied my Luger into it. I saved humanity as well as my butt.

While patting myself on my shoulder, I happened to look a little to the right. LO and behold, there was that big ol' white flag that is the characteristic response of a white tail deer high tailing it out of there. Now I wonder if I should carry a pistol while deer hunting so that I can put down a badly wounded deer without ruining some good meat or not to carry it and avoid missing a good shot at a deer in the first place. Another one of those 'it depends upon' thingys that complicates life if so many ways.

Norm, Jerry is not wrong and neither am I. Jerry is an well known and respected expert in what he does and knows. He is also a perfectionist and collector of very nice Lugers and accessories . I too am a collector and I hope that the majority of my Lugers are up to Jerrys standards. I would love to show Jerry some of my articles. I was hoping to do it when Ed Tinker and Jerry lived in the same state, but Ed moved.

Anyway, to make a short story long, while I have a nice collection, I also have some Lugers that are not of collectible standards that I use for other purposes. In reading your post, I assumed that your Luger and its accessories were something between garbage and highly collectible, expensive stuff. Not at either extreme. I geared my post to my interpretation to what your particular post of your item suggested. You got some valuable information here on both sides from some very good people.

Finally, I was surprised that someone didn't chime in on the preservatives that you applied to your leather. You might not be a hard core collector yet. But you may very well become one. Someday, you just might have something that is highly collectible and you should know what you should and shouldn't do. Keep reading this forum especially on the application of preservatives on leather. Take what Jerry says as gospel. He's that good.
Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 04-10-2009, 07:09 PM

Big Norm..Yer swellin my head! About the rivet holes...The Artillery strap is riddled with large adjustment holes....a couple rivet holes is nothing really compared to all the others. I guess I just don't like those plates too much...

Jerry Burney

03-25-2009, 09:55 PM	#1
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Artillery Rig? Does anyone have a picture of the back of the holster with the shoulder stock attached? I figured out the boot down at the muzzle end, but can't figure out how the thin strap is supposed to run. FN

03-26-2009, 07:50 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Norm, Instalation of shoulder strap: Thread one end of strap thur lower hole of stock, up thru one side of the cross strap on back of holster and out thru the upper hole of stock. Do the same on the other side with other end of strap. The lenght of what you thread thru will need to be adjusted so that the holes in strap will line up for insertion of the brass studs. Don't forget to put on dual mag pouch, BEFORE installing 2nd strap end. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-26-2009, 02:08 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,774 Thanks: 4,953 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,435 Posts	Approx 3 inches from one strap end is an approx 2 inch metal strip. What's that for? It's to tell us you have a reproduction strap. I suggest you flatten the rivets with a grinder and when they are flat enough pry off the metal strip and toss it in the ash can. To install a strap properly put it around the back of your neck with the stock & holster in front between your knees, stock towards you. Thread the ends of the strap into the top holes of the stock, down into the stock block and back into the stock. Tom says.. Don't forget to put on dual mag pouch, BEFORE installing 2nd strap end. This is ONLY if it is a Navy. Artillery Luger rigs NEVER have this double mag pouch worn on the strap. They were belt worn. BUT..Since yours is a repro rig I suspect it came with the strap type double mag pouch. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-26-2009, 03:24 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,774 Thanks: 4,953 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,435 Posts	Fn, Yes..The strap you describe screwed onto the stock comes over the top of the holster and is the closure strap, attaching to the front closure strap attached to the front face of the holster. The double mag pouch goes onto the left strap if the pistol is to be worn on the right side. It would end up on the front of the chest. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-26-2009, 04:25 PM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,530 Times in 787 Posts	Does this help? Attached Thumbnails

03-26-2009, 01:46 PM	#3
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Thanks! But a small problem. What is the small metal plate for? Approx 3 inches from one strap end is an approx 2 inch metal strip. What's that for? I'm going to have to flatten the riven heads to get them through the stock. FN

03-26-2009, 03:14 PM	#5
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Thanks, Jerry. YUP repo rig. and, not Navy. I did find one old pic on this forum, showing the strap over the top of the holster (studded for holster top closure) is screwed into the stock. Is that right? I think this pic was from a Turkish artillery. Yes, I did get the double mag pouch. I'll put in on the strap just so it doesn't get lost. When I get done, I'll see if I can send picts. FN

03-26-2009, 04:50 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,774 Thanks: 4,953 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,435 Posts	Nah George, You forgot to put the holster on! HAHA... Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-26-2009, 04:56 PM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,530 Times in 787 Posts	Never do...too much stress.

03-26-2009, 08:58 PM	#10
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Thanks, All! I got it now! The double magazine pouch is built for a belt anyway. Wouldn't fit right on a shoulder strap. 90 degrees out. But It'll be there for now just so I don't lose it. FN

03-27-2009, 08:50 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Norm, If your LPO8 shoulder strap has a plate attached toward one end, it is probably one of the Persian repros that were offered on the market many years ago. With those you would have to thread the "non-plate" end thru the stock & holster and that gets too tricky to explain here. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-27-2009, 10:04 AM	#12
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Lugatdoc, et al: I'm new to all of this. Just picked up my first Lugars at sort of an an estate sale. Guy's business needed $$ and he says he got these from his father-in-law. He was selling all his guns, some M1 carbines, a Garand, w/ jeep scabbard, etc. So I picked up two, then later went back for another. The best of the lot is a 1920's commercial in 7.65, just about mint. Straw, etc. And the 1917 artillery, But it has been re-blued. Reconditioned?? I also got a bunch of other loose stuff. Some magazines, two tools, spare handgrips, etc. So I bought two holsters through Numrich. Dunno the supplier. Working on this artillery and figuring out how to rig it, I thought it strange that the stock hadn't been drilled for the screws. I conditioned/softened the holsters with Fiebing's Care- 4. I also have a leather hobby and hate the smell of Lexol. This stuffs better. For deeper or damaged leather use the same brand only saddle oil. Anyway, I digress. I got two tools with the whole mess, and figured I'd put those in the holster pouches. Noticed that one had a number on it. It matched the 1920 commercial! Light bulbs went off! The number on the stock also matched the commercial! Possible? or a happy accident? FN

03-27-2009, 10:15 AM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,530 Times in 787 Posts	Photos of stock and marked tool are needed to give a proper answer. As a Luger skeptic I would suspect that the two numbered stock and tool are fakes. Sound even like a buy from a dealer in C????Cove in Texas.

03-27-2009, 10:25 AM	#14
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	Stock and tool each have four numbers....

04-10-2009, 03:52 PM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Oh Wow! Another Norm around here! I wonder why you would take the metal plate off of the strap as Jerry suggested? You already know that its a repro. Grinding the rivets might expose a weakness and/or discoloration in the strap. Once you get the hang of how the strap looks after assembly, you can thread the strap though all the appropriate, and admittedly complicated holes, by using the other end of the strap. It takes a lot more time but its doable. I agree with Anderson that its a mess trying to take the stock off of the strap/holster after everything is properly assembled. It also takes some of the fun out of shooting the artillery, if you decide to try to shoot your gun with the stock with all the leather attachments still on. It can also screw up the appearance of the stock irons leather cup if you do it too often. That cup fits pretty snug and a replacement cup is a hard thing to find. It probably would be better to buy a repro stock for when you decide to do some shooting at the range and leave your assembled rig for display. Big Norm

04-10-2009, 04:11 PM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,774 Thanks: 4,953 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,435 Posts	I wonder why you would take the metal plate off of the strap as Jerry suggested? Because it dosen't belong there, it causes great difficulty in threading the strap thru the stock & holster and once installed it sticks out like a boner at church services. Truly one of the dumber things I have seen repro artists employ. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-10-2009, 04:19 PM	#17
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Norm, I just reread your posts. I see that the serial number on the stock matches the serial number on the commercial 1920. I don't know if the law has been changed, but luger stocks can only be legally used on artilleries and navies and not on P-08's. They are also legal on the 1900's thru 1906's using an 'Ideal' stock. They are not legal on P08's. But laws can be, and are, frequently changed. So I could be corrected here. Big Norm

04-10-2009, 05:49 PM	#18
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Jerry, as usual, you are absolutely right. I haven't seen many of these straps with the metal plate on them, so I have to shoot from the hip a little in responding. But it sounds like the rivets go through the metal plate as well as the leather. By going through the leather, a weak point or two, in the strap is created. Removing the metal may only weaken the leather more. I would guess too that there is a 'depending on' situation here too. Norm may take this rig out in the field hunting. Those holes could then enlargen and the whole strap could break. I do not have a concealed weapons permit so I have to carry my pistols outside in full view, even while hunting with a valid license. So I know that the straps could very well be exposed to a lot of wear from both brush and weather while hunting. I used to carry a shooter Luger with me while hunting too, until it backfired on me once. Once is once too many times. While coming in from hunting, I spotted a dangerous tree stump at the side of the trail that I felt was threatening my life and well being. So I emptied my Luger into it. I saved humanity as well as my butt. While patting myself on my shoulder, I happened to look a little to the right. LO and behold, there was that big ol' white flag that is the characteristic response of a white tail deer high tailing it out of there. Now I wonder if I should carry a pistol while deer hunting so that I can put down a badly wounded deer without ruining some good meat or not to carry it and avoid missing a good shot at a deer in the first place. Another one of those 'it depends upon' thingys that complicates life if so many ways. Norm, Jerry is not wrong and neither am I. Jerry is an well known and respected expert in what he does and knows. He is also a perfectionist and collector of very nice Lugers and accessories . I too am a collector and I hope that the majority of my Lugers are up to Jerrys standards. I would love to show Jerry some of my articles. I was hoping to do it when Ed Tinker and Jerry lived in the same state, but Ed moved. Anyway, to make a short story long, while I have a nice collection, I also have some Lugers that are not of collectible standards that I use for other purposes. In reading your post, I assumed that your Luger and its accessories were something between garbage and highly collectible, expensive stuff. Not at either extreme. I geared my post to my interpretation to what your particular post of your item suggested. You got some valuable information here on both sides from some very good people. Finally, I was surprised that someone didn't chime in on the preservatives that you applied to your leather. You might not be a hard core collector yet. But you may very well become one. Someday, you just might have something that is highly collectible and you should know what you should and shouldn't do. Keep reading this forum especially on the application of preservatives on leather. Take what Jerry says as gospel. He's that good. Norm

04-10-2009, 07:09 PM	#19
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,774 Thanks: 4,953 Thanked 3,126 Times in 1,435 Posts	Big Norm..Yer swellin my head! About the rivet holes...The Artillery strap is riddled with large adjustment holes....a couple rivet holes is nothing really compared to all the others. I guess I just don't like those plates too much... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."