Help ID Markings

apis mellifera · 03-17-2009, 08:46 PM

I have a 1939 42 with the following markings on the barrel underside:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/DSC01376.jpg

L to R
8,82 (know this one)
8835 (the SN) suffix t BTW
3 proofs, the bottom one is NP
9 M/M
.752" (which is ~19mm)
13 or 15 tons

The pistol came with a mag marked 2/1001, a marking so rare that I've only ever seen several many.

Hermann GÃ?Â¶ring presented this pistol to Hitler's American cousin, hence the markings that appear to be inches and tons. I have created a letter of authenticity to prove this. For the sake of discussion, lets say there was another not as rare pistol marked in similarly the exact way (without letter, of course), what do these markings mean and what do they tell us of this pistols journey?

Thanks,
Matt

Ron Wood · 03-17-2009, 09:17 PM

The markings are standard British proof marks required for any non-English made firearm brought into country and sold on the British market. The 2/1001 marked magazine is East German made on the old Hanel tooling.
i would love to see the letter of aunthenticity that you have created.

tenbears · 03-17-2009, 09:58 PM

For grins and giggles I would love to see your letter too.

JTD · 03-18-2009, 08:16 AM

I dont know, it may be boosted!!!

Ron Smith · 03-18-2009, 08:56 AM

Maybe presented to a WV Coal Miner in July of '52, fer Loadin' 15 tons of #9 Coal?

I do want to know if your letter of authenticity is written on authentic paper with authentic ink, however.

rolandtg · 03-18-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

Maybe presented to a WV Coal Miner in July of '52, fer Loadin' 15 tons of #9 Coal?

Gaffaw! I was thinking the same thing when i saw the "15 TONS".

apis mellifera · 03-18-2009, 07:07 PM

Here it is:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v3...uns/letter.jpg

cma22inc · 03-18-2009, 08:41 PM

Classic... lol

sheepherder · 03-18-2009, 10:02 PM

I was skeptical, but after seeing that Letter of Authenticity, I'm a believer!

...Just what does that "752" refer to???...

apis mellifera · 03-18-2009, 10:40 PM

Well, I've figured it out thanks to a post I found about a similarly marked Webley. From what I read, the markings aren't for non-English guns sold in England, but rather any gun sold by the British government as surplus.

On my gun the three markings between the SN and 9 M/M are actually one light mark. It should be an arm holding a sword over the letters NP, which stands for nitro proof. This stamp is the commercial proof put on when the gun was sold by a government store. This particular stamp was used in the London proofing house. 9 M/M is obviously the caliber. The mark .752" is the chamber length (case length). I guessed that was the case since .752" roughly equals 19mm. The 13 tons is the cartridge mean working pressure (not the proof pressure). Wiki says the working pressure of 9x19mm is ~40,000 psi. Math would probably tell us that that equals 13 tons.

I'm so glad Al Gore invented the internet.

Interesting link:
www.riflebuilders.com/proof1.pdf

03-17-2009, 08:46 PM	#1
apis mellifera User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WV Posts: 149 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Help ID Markings I have a 1939 42 with the following markings on the barrel underside: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/DSC01376.jpg L to R 8,82 (know this one) 8835 (the SN) suffix t BTW 3 proofs, the bottom one is NP 9 M/M .752" (which is ~19mm) 13 or 15 tons The pistol came with a mag marked 2/1001, a marking so rare that I've only ever seen several many. Hermann GÃ?Â¶ring presented this pistol to Hitler's American cousin, hence the markings that appear to be inches and tons. I have created a letter of authenticity to prove this. For the sake of discussion, lets say there was another not as rare pistol marked in similarly the exact way (without letter, of course), what do these markings mean and what do they tell us of this pistols journey? Thanks, Matt Attached Thumbnails

03-17-2009, 09:17 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,017 Thanks: 1,089 Thanked 5,164 Times in 1,700 Posts	The markings are standard British proof marks required for any non-English made firearm brought into country and sold on the British market. The 2/1001 marked magazine is East German made on the old Hanel tooling. i would love to see the letter of aunthenticity that you have created. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-18-2009, 08:56 AM	#5
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Maybe presented to a WV Coal Miner in July of '52, fer Loadin' 15 tons of #9 Coal? I do want to know if your letter of authenticity is written on authentic paper with authentic ink, however. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-18-2009, 07:07 PM	#7
apis mellifera User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WV Posts: 149 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Here it is: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v3...uns/letter.jpg Attached Thumbnails

03-17-2009, 09:58 PM	#3
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	For grins and giggles I would love to see your letter too.

03-18-2009, 08:16 AM	#4
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 425 Thanks: 217 Thanked 408 Times in 149 Posts	I dont know, it may be boosted!!!

03-18-2009, 08:41 PM	#8
cma22inc User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa Bay FL Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Classic... lol

03-18-2009, 10:02 PM	#9
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,400 Thanked 4,442 Times in 2,330 Posts	I was skeptical, but after seeing that Letter of Authenticity, I'm a believer! ...Just what does that "752" refer to???...

03-18-2009, 10:40 PM	#10
apis mellifera User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WV Posts: 149 Thanks: 3 Thanked 24 Times in 8 Posts	Well, I've figured it out thanks to a post I found about a similarly marked Webley. From what I read, the markings aren't for non-English guns sold in England, but rather any gun sold by the British government as surplus. On my gun the three markings between the SN and 9 M/M are actually one light mark. It should be an arm holding a sword over the letters NP, which stands for nitro proof. This stamp is the commercial proof put on when the gun was sold by a government store. This particular stamp was used in the London proofing house. 9 M/M is obviously the caliber. The mark .752" is the chamber length (case length). I guessed that was the case since .752" roughly equals 19mm. The 13 tons is the cartridge mean working pressure (not the proof pressure). Wiki says the working pressure of 9x19mm is ~40,000 psi. Math would probably tell us that that equals 13 tons. I'm so glad Al Gore invented the internet. Interesting link: www.riflebuilders.com/proof1.pdf