How To Load the Magazine

alterfritz · 02-25-2009, 11:51 PM

Hi all,

I have a 1970s Luger, pretty new to me and I am getting used to it, so my question may sound rather ignorant, but here it comes anyway.

So far, when loading the magazine, I held it slightly "to the left", with the left hand pushing down the button. This way the cartridges naturally fell toward the rear end of the magazine. Sometimes I noticed that the mag would not fit into the grip. Today I looked at this closer for the first time and noticed that the rear end of the top cartridge protruded from the magazine and this is what kept it from fitting in smoothly. I tried to load the magazine now twisted to the right so that the cartridges all are aligned with the frontside of the magazine. This way it goes into the grip easily. Alas, I just returned from the range and wont go there again before next week so I have no way of trying if this also solves the occasional stovepipe malfunction I have, so I thought I ask here first for some theoretical help in that matter.

Also what I noticed recently, with Winchester ammonition though, that the toggle didnt stay open after the last round sometimes. Could this perhaps be a sign that the regular ammo is too weak for this particular gun? And that a slightly stronger load could help with the malfunction? I am currently learning how to reload and will get myself some equipment in the future because I understand from many other posts here, that is the ultimate way to go.

I am asking all these questions because I was shooting some full magazines at higher speed recently and had some malfunctions and got a "dude that gun is crap" comment from somebody. I don't believe it is the gun though. My opinion is, the German army wouldn't have kept it during two world wars if there really were so many problems, not to mention the police forces in so many countries.

Anyway, I would appreciate any input here. I have come so far as to look at the ammunition as the main culprit, that's why my long term goal is to start loading my own cartridges.

LSP972 · 02-26-2009, 07:49 AM

I'm a new owner too. Can't help you with the magazine question; mine is a 1914 model and is probably different from what you have.

But I can shed some light on your ammunition question. I question the lore that says Lugers need "hot ammo". Mine is 100% reliable with Winchester "white box" 115gr ball, Federal American Eagle 115gr ball, and Blazer aluminum 115gr ball. This stuff is certainly not "hot" by industry standards.

I handload, and my Luger does not function reliably with my two pet 9mm loads; both of which are the same, pressure/velocity-wise, as the aforementioned factory loads. The difference is in the bullet shape and overall cartridge length.

The bullets I am using have a different shape; the ogive is shallower. What this means is the factory bullets, as well as the bullets loaded into the vintage German ammunition made for these pistols, are more "streamlined", for lack of a better term. This may, or may not, affect feeding. What most certainly affects feeding is the fact that my handloads are a bit shorter than factory specs.

Mine "stovepipes" too, with my handloads. It is a classic failure to feed, and clearly is because the nose of the bullet coming out of the magazine is stubbing into the bottom of the feed ramp, as opposed to sliding smoothly upward into the chamber.

I have some factory Winchester projectiles that I will load longer, next time I load 9mm (doing a batch of .45s right now).

It sounds to me like your troubles are more magazine/pistol related. Deformed lips, a twisted tube, or any of a variety of possible magazine defects can cause failures to feed. As for the toggle not locking back, I understand the part that accomplishes this is rather weak in these pistols; and that some variants don't even have it. Not sure about that, though.

And as for the cultural pygmy who made the "dude, that gun is crap" remark... ignore such cretins, for they can never grasp the history and grace of an old warhorse. Of course, yours is a modern edition, but the lineage is still there.

Every time I handle mine, I think, "Man. I wish this puppy could tell me what it has seen and done."

.

.

Edward Tinker · 02-26-2009, 08:34 AM

I find most problems relate to ammo or magaiznes and usaully the latter....

I do not believe in the hotter is better for lugers mentality either, poppycock.

Many folks use a loading tool, as that is what it is designed for, personally, I use my thumb as I did for 20 years in the army with the 1911A1....

Ed

alterfritz · 02-26-2009, 05:07 PM

Thanks so far. I have noticed, when comparing different amunition and even the two different types of snap cap dummies I have here, that the overall length differs. It can be seen with the naked eye even (I have a caliper coming in the mail right now so I can't give any measurements yet) so my guess would be this must have something to do with it, as well as the strength of the spring in the magazine. The spring in the original mauser mags that came with my gun are REALLY strong, so I'm using a plastic loading tool there (Sorry Ed, my thumb is a whimp

) )

I will order some different types of ammunition today and see if that makes any difference. It's just so difficult to get any, it seems that the market was swept empty. I know that the original bullets designed for the P08 were conical so it is my guess that either a conical shape or at least a slimmer long bullet might do the trick. Not sure however, but I will get as many different types as possible and try them out

What do you think about this one: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM431-5.html ? Its a 147gr conical shaped winchester cartridge. I know that the usual weight recommednded is 115gr, but is there anyting that speaks against trying this one?

Vlim · 02-26-2009, 05:37 PM

The magazines that came with the postwar Mauser Parabellum were not very good. Try using a MecGar as an alternative magazine. I never got my Mauser Parabellum magazines to function at all and basically gave up on them

There is quite a lot of reference to the lack of quality of early Magazines in the Mauser archives of the 1970s. The magazines were produced by a Dutch company that had quite some trouble getting things correct.

When Mauser tested several ammunition brands around 1970-71 they found that Winchester performed well, but that the toggle would not always stay open after the last shot. I've observed the same with the Winchester 115gr 9x19 and a 1937 Mauser. Wouldn't worry about it.

02-25-2009, 11:51 PM	#1
alterfritz User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: California Posts: 63 Thanks: 3 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	How To Load the Magazine Hi all, I have a 1970s Luger, pretty new to me and I am getting used to it, so my question may sound rather ignorant, but here it comes anyway. So far, when loading the magazine, I held it slightly "to the left", with the left hand pushing down the button. This way the cartridges naturally fell toward the rear end of the magazine. Sometimes I noticed that the mag would not fit into the grip. Today I looked at this closer for the first time and noticed that the rear end of the top cartridge protruded from the magazine and this is what kept it from fitting in smoothly. I tried to load the magazine now twisted to the right so that the cartridges all are aligned with the frontside of the magazine. This way it goes into the grip easily. Alas, I just returned from the range and wont go there again before next week so I have no way of trying if this also solves the occasional stovepipe malfunction I have, so I thought I ask here first for some theoretical help in that matter. Also what I noticed recently, with Winchester ammonition though, that the toggle didnt stay open after the last round sometimes. Could this perhaps be a sign that the regular ammo is too weak for this particular gun? And that a slightly stronger load could help with the malfunction? I am currently learning how to reload and will get myself some equipment in the future because I understand from many other posts here, that is the ultimate way to go. I am asking all these questions because I was shooting some full magazines at higher speed recently and had some malfunctions and got a "dude that gun is crap" comment from somebody. I don't believe it is the gun though. My opinion is, the German army wouldn't have kept it during two world wars if there really were so many problems, not to mention the police forces in so many countries. Anyway, I would appreciate any input here. I have come so far as to look at the ammunition as the main culprit, that's why my long term goal is to start loading my own cartridges.

02-26-2009, 08:34 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,919 Thanks: 1,998 Thanked 4,511 Times in 2,083 Posts	I find most problems relate to ammo or magaiznes and usaully the latter.... I do not believe in the hotter is better for lugers mentality either, poppycock. Many folks use a loading tool, as that is what it is designed for, personally, I use my thumb as I did for 20 years in the army with the 1911A1.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-26-2009, 07:49 AM	#2
LSP972 User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I'm a new owner too. Can't help you with the magazine question; mine is a 1914 model and is probably different from what you have. But I can shed some light on your ammunition question. I question the lore that says Lugers need "hot ammo". Mine is 100% reliable with Winchester "white box" 115gr ball, Federal American Eagle 115gr ball, and Blazer aluminum 115gr ball. This stuff is certainly not "hot" by industry standards. I handload, and my Luger does not function reliably with my two pet 9mm loads; both of which are the same, pressure/velocity-wise, as the aforementioned factory loads. The difference is in the bullet shape and overall cartridge length. The bullets I am using have a different shape; the ogive is shallower. What this means is the factory bullets, as well as the bullets loaded into the vintage German ammunition made for these pistols, are more "streamlined", for lack of a better term. This may, or may not, affect feeding. What most certainly affects feeding is the fact that my handloads are a bit shorter than factory specs. Mine "stovepipes" too, with my handloads. It is a classic failure to feed, and clearly is because the nose of the bullet coming out of the magazine is stubbing into the bottom of the feed ramp, as opposed to sliding smoothly upward into the chamber. I have some factory Winchester projectiles that I will load longer, next time I load 9mm (doing a batch of .45s right now). It sounds to me like your troubles are more magazine/pistol related. Deformed lips, a twisted tube, or any of a variety of possible magazine defects can cause failures to feed. As for the toggle not locking back, I understand the part that accomplishes this is rather weak in these pistols; and that some variants don't even have it. Not sure about that, though. And as for the cultural pygmy who made the "dude, that gun is crap" remark... ignore such cretins, for they can never grasp the history and grace of an old warhorse. Of course, yours is a modern edition, but the lineage is still there. Every time I handle mine, I think, "Man. I wish this puppy could tell me what it has seen and done." . .

02-26-2009, 05:07 PM	#4
alterfritz User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: California Posts: 63 Thanks: 3 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks so far. I have noticed, when comparing different amunition and even the two different types of snap cap dummies I have here, that the overall length differs. It can be seen with the naked eye even (I have a caliper coming in the mail right now so I can't give any measurements yet) so my guess would be this must have something to do with it, as well as the strength of the spring in the magazine. The spring in the original mauser mags that came with my gun are REALLY strong, so I'm using a plastic loading tool there (Sorry Ed, my thumb is a whimp ) ) I will order some different types of ammunition today and see if that makes any difference. It's just so difficult to get any, it seems that the market was swept empty. I know that the original bullets designed for the P08 were conical so it is my guess that either a conical shape or at least a slimmer long bullet might do the trick. Not sure however, but I will get as many different types as possible and try them out What do you think about this one: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM431-5.html ? Its a 147gr conical shaped winchester cartridge. I know that the usual weight recommednded is 115gr, but is there anyting that speaks against trying this one?

02-26-2009, 05:37 PM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,049 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,958 Times in 1,200 Posts	The magazines that came with the postwar Mauser Parabellum were not very good. Try using a MecGar as an alternative magazine. I never got my Mauser Parabellum magazines to function at all and basically gave up on them There is quite a lot of reference to the lack of quality of early Magazines in the Mauser archives of the 1970s. The magazines were produced by a Dutch company that had quite some trouble getting things correct. When Mauser tested several ammunition brands around 1970-71 they found that Winchester performed well, but that the toggle would not always stay open after the last shot. I've observed the same with the Winchester 115gr 9x19 and a 1937 Mauser. Wouldn't worry about it.