Why do owners hide s/n ?

alvin · 07-13-2008, 09:36 AM

It's common on many forums -- hiding the s/n, or partial s/n on pictures. I heard two major "security" related theories: (1) a full-auto/selective-fire may not be registered, so.... but most gun pictures are legal semi, that theory obviously does not apply; (2) it could be a stolen one back in its history, hiding the s/n could prevent the headache of someone jumping out claiming the ownership.... hiding plays a "title insurance" role here.....

Valid reasons? Many people doing that, there must be a reason.... any comments, any thought?

Edward Tinker · 07-13-2008, 10:54 AM

gun folks are by majority security concious, and a bit paranoid.

your 2nd reason is the reason folks do it. I believe the primary and the 3rd reason is because they have always "seen" this done and so they do it.

Problem is, if they want a semi evaluation of a gun, pictures are a must and unless they are very good at paint shop pro, it is hard to hide many of the last two, and folks naturally write luger # 34xx

This same issue gets brought up every now and then, so, I am sure there are other threads with different ideas thrown out

Ed

MikeP · 07-13-2008, 01:58 PM

Here's another take.
Many pieces were obtained in the days before any sort of registration.
I have a few I have owned for 50 years.
These are "cold" guns and very desireable to some for personal reasons.
Without criminal intent, I should add.

You also still find these cold pieces in vets or widows closets.

alvin · 07-13-2008, 02:11 PM

Ha, here it is..... "cold" guns must be reason (1)-like. I heard BATF had not allowed attaching a stock to a .... even a Borchardt, in 1980s (?), unless it's registered as a NFA weapon (?) .... thanks Lord, they lifted that. Now the tricky part is the stock must be original if it's attached. Whew. Hopefully, they would lift more.

It's interesting to notice dealers like Simpson, FGS put 34xx in their text description. Ironically, the s/n is visible on the pictures. Habitual bahavior, I guess.

======

The reason #3 mentioned by Ed makes lots of sense to me.

Ron Wood · 07-13-2008, 04:05 PM

Dealers were partially responsible for the practice. Some lowlife individuals would purchase a gun with 3-day inspection. The reason for buying was that the last two digits of the serial number matched a mis-matched piece they already owned. The dealer would get back the gun at the end of the inspection period and refund the purchase price, only to find out later that parts had been swapped out. So dealers resorted to obscuring the last digits to prevent this swindle. With the advent of Internet selling, photos have pretty much made this non-effective, but not listing the full serial number still hangs on.

alvin · 07-13-2008, 07:57 PM

Thanks for the insight. No wonder a seller told me "It's an all-match gun. you can inspect outside, but you are not allowed to dry-fire it, nor disassemble it." ...... no dry-firing is understandable. No disassembling, he mentioned that he dared not disassemble it, and not allowing me to disassemble it, all by his grandpa's words "it's all matching" ?? Originally, I thought he worried that I could not put it back "If I cannot put it back, of course I will keep it". No.... he said something like "what if you keep parts"..... My brain still did not turn around.... parts for $2k?

But finally he gave up. It's like selling a house, open-house session is annoying but cannot be skipped.

=====

Just thought a little more. What if I had really found problems inside, e.g. mismatched parts inside, and he insisted it's all matching before he sent to me.... because his grandpa had told him so. That would be a big headache. Well, nothing could go through based on that assumption.

What's missing is an independent 3rd party that both seller and buyer trust to coordinate the transaction.

07-13-2008, 09:36 AM	#1
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Why do owners hide s/n ? It's common on many forums -- hiding the s/n, or partial s/n on pictures. I heard two major "security" related theories: (1) a full-auto/selective-fire may not be registered, so.... but most gun pictures are legal semi, that theory obviously does not apply; (2) it could be a stolen one back in its history, hiding the s/n could prevent the headache of someone jumping out claiming the ownership.... hiding plays a "title insurance" role here..... Valid reasons? Many people doing that, there must be a reason.... any comments, any thought?

07-13-2008, 10:54 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	gun folks are by majority security concious, and a bit paranoid. your 2nd reason is the reason folks do it. I believe the primary and the 3rd reason is because they have always "seen" this done and so they do it. Problem is, if they want a semi evaluation of a gun, pictures are a must and unless they are very good at paint shop pro, it is hard to hide many of the last two, and folks naturally write luger # 34xx This same issue gets brought up every now and then, so, I am sure there are other threads with different ideas thrown out Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-13-2008, 04:05 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Dealers were partially responsible for the practice. Some lowlife individuals would purchase a gun with 3-day inspection. The reason for buying was that the last two digits of the serial number matched a mis-matched piece they already owned. The dealer would get back the gun at the end of the inspection period and refund the purchase price, only to find out later that parts had been swapped out. So dealers resorted to obscuring the last digits to prevent this swindle. With the advent of Internet selling, photos have pretty much made this non-effective, but not listing the full serial number still hangs on. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-13-2008, 01:58 PM	#3
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Here's another take. Many pieces were obtained in the days before any sort of registration. I have a few I have owned for 50 years. These are "cold" guns and very desireable to some for personal reasons. Without criminal intent, I should add. You also still find these cold pieces in vets or widows closets.

07-13-2008, 02:11 PM	#4
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Ha, here it is..... "cold" guns must be reason (1)-like. I heard BATF had not allowed attaching a stock to a .... even a Borchardt, in 1980s (?), unless it's registered as a NFA weapon (?) .... thanks Lord, they lifted that. Now the tricky part is the stock must be original if it's attached. Whew. Hopefully, they would lift more. It's interesting to notice dealers like Simpson, FGS put 34xx in their text description. Ironically, the s/n is visible on the pictures. Habitual bahavior, I guess. ====== The reason #3 mentioned by Ed makes lots of sense to me.

07-13-2008, 07:57 PM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Thanks for the insight. No wonder a seller told me "It's an all-match gun. you can inspect outside, but you are not allowed to dry-fire it, nor disassemble it." ...... no dry-firing is understandable. No disassembling, he mentioned that he dared not disassemble it, and not allowing me to disassemble it, all by his grandpa's words "it's all matching" ?? Originally, I thought he worried that I could not put it back "If I cannot put it back, of course I will keep it". No.... he said something like "what if you keep parts"..... My brain still did not turn around.... parts for $2k? But finally he gave up. It's like selling a house, open-house session is annoying but cannot be skipped. ===== Just thought a little more. What if I had really found problems inside, e.g. mismatched parts inside, and he insisted it's all matching before he sent to me.... because his grandpa had told him so. That would be a big headache. Well, nothing could go through based on that assumption. What's missing is an independent 3rd party that both seller and buyer trust to coordinate the transaction.