Luger chamber dates question

Jasta2 · 03-29-2008, 12:16 PM

Just how many military year chamber dates were stamped? Their first year was ??? I.E. 1912, 1913, 1914, 1918,1920 then were all the dbl dates 1920 over 1914 ect? Simpsons was dated 1925/26/27/28. Then the "letter" dates IE. K=1934 and G=1935. where these the only two? Starting again with 1936,1937,1938. How far did the dates continue? Is any one date alot rarer than another? like a 1914 DWM or a 1914 ERFURT?
Is there a web link to pictures of all the dates?
Thanks,Bill

Dwight Gruber · 03-29-2008, 01:47 PM

Erfurt:
1911
1912
1913
1914 (including LP-08 Artillery models)
(There are no authentic 1915 dated Erfurts reported)
1916
1917
1918

There are two known Erfurts with chamber date 1910 whose provenance has convinced several leading Luger authorities that they are authentic.

DWM:
1910
1911
1912
1913
1914
1915
1916
1917
1918
1920
1921

1914-1918 includes LP-08 artillery models; 1916 and 1917 includes Navy models.

Simson:
1925
1926

Simson P-08s with chamber dates of 1927 and 1928 are considered to be forgeries.

Mauser:
K (1934)
G (1935)
1936
1937
1938
1939
1940
41 (1941)
42 (1942)

Krieghoff:
G (1935)
S (1936)
36 (1936)
1936
1937
1938
(There are no authentic 1939 dated Krieghoffs reported.)
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945

The term "double-date" is a misnomer. the 1920 stamp does not represent a date, but a property mark. It was stamped over the chamber to signify that the pistol was owned by the government. It is found on DWM and Erfurt Imperial Army pistols of any date, and DWM 1920 and 1921 production. It also occasionally pops up on Lugers of later manufacture, but rarely.

The dated Lugers with the lowest production are DWM 1912 (10,000 guns est.); 1914 DWM Artillery (less than 5,000 guns est.); Erfurt 1911 (10,000 guns est.) and 1914 (7,000 guns est.); Mauser K date (1,100 guns est.); Mauser 42-code 41 (7,000 guns est.); and all Simson and Krieghoff.

--Dwight

Jasta2 · 03-29-2008, 05:06 PM

WOW!! Thanks Dwight. A great list! I see the Dbl Date listed in "Lugers at Random" as both 1920 and 1921 as the year of rework. I take the book is in error on this point. Are there any 1921 dbl dates?? That would be a 1921 property mark? I will print a few copies of this to have on hand. If this list is not a "sticky" in some Forum, it should be.
Tks again,Bill

Dwight Gruber · 03-30-2008, 03:08 AM

Bill.

Lugers At Random is a venerable 30 years old, and much new understanding of Lugers has come about since then.

The DWM P-08s chamber dated 1920 and 1921, and proofed with eagles or doves over ArA4 or WaA4, are now recognized as new production, not reworks. The property mark is only 1920, so there are guns chamber stamped 1920/1920 and 1921/1920.

--Dwight

tenbears · 03-30-2008, 11:29 AM

How many double date artillery Lugers that were in service? And to narrow it down a bit. How many of these were Naval marked?
Thanks

lugerholsterrepair · 03-30-2008, 12:04 PM

Dwight, Yes, I agree with Bill..a great reference and should be made permanent here somewhere.
Thanks! Jerry Burney

unspellable · 04-03-2008, 02:04 PM

I have been led to understand that the 1920 thing is a "permission" date, indicating that the terms under which the Allies allowed the Germans to posses such pistols were agreed to in 1920.

Edward Tinker · 04-03-2008, 02:11 PM

The 1920 can be a date stamp, but it is usually a Reichswehr property stamping; the allies were encouraging folks to turn in pistols, so pistols were being stolen from arms rooms, so there was an edict to have go'v t weapons stamped. Many were, some were not.

Ed

03-29-2008, 12:16 PM	#1
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Luger chamber dates question Just how many military year chamber dates were stamped? Their first year was ??? I.E. 1912, 1913, 1914, 1918,1920 then were all the dbl dates 1920 over 1914 ect? Simpsons was dated 1925/26/27/28. Then the "letter" dates IE. K=1934 and G=1935. where these the only two? Starting again with 1936,1937,1938. How far did the dates continue? Is any one date alot rarer than another? like a 1914 DWM or a 1914 ERFURT? Is there a web link to pictures of all the dates? Thanks,Bill

03-30-2008, 12:04 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Dwight, Yes, I agree with Bill..a great reference and should be made permanent here somewhere. Thanks! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

04-03-2008, 02:11 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	The 1920 can be a date stamp, but it is usually a Reichswehr property stamping; the allies were encouraging folks to turn in pistols, so pistols were being stolen from arms rooms, so there was an edict to have go'v t weapons stamped. Many were, some were not. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-29-2008, 01:47 PM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Erfurt: 1911 1912 1913 1914 (including LP-08 Artillery models) (There are no authentic 1915 dated Erfurts reported) 1916 1917 1918 There are two known Erfurts with chamber date 1910 whose provenance has convinced several leading Luger authorities that they are authentic. DWM: 1910 1911 1912 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918 1920 1921 1914-1918 includes LP-08 artillery models; 1916 and 1917 includes Navy models. Simson: 1925 1926 Simson P-08s with chamber dates of 1927 and 1928 are considered to be forgeries. Mauser: K (1934) G (1935) 1936 1937 1938 1939 1940 41 (1941) 42 (1942) Krieghoff: G (1935) S (1936) 36 (1936) 1936 1937 1938 (There are no authentic 1939 dated Krieghoffs reported.) 1940 1941 1942 1943 1944 1945 The term "double-date" is a misnomer. the 1920 stamp does not represent a date, but a property mark. It was stamped over the chamber to signify that the pistol was owned by the government. It is found on DWM and Erfurt Imperial Army pistols of any date, and DWM 1920 and 1921 production. It also occasionally pops up on Lugers of later manufacture, but rarely. The dated Lugers with the lowest production are DWM 1912 (10,000 guns est.); 1914 DWM Artillery (less than 5,000 guns est.); Erfurt 1911 (10,000 guns est.) and 1914 (7,000 guns est.); Mauser K date (1,100 guns est.); Mauser 42-code 41 (7,000 guns est.); and all Simson and Krieghoff. --Dwight

03-29-2008, 05:06 PM	#3
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	WOW!! Thanks Dwight. A great list! I see the Dbl Date listed in "Lugers at Random" as both 1920 and 1921 as the year of rework. I take the book is in error on this point. Are there any 1921 dbl dates?? That would be a 1921 property mark? I will print a few copies of this to have on hand. If this list is not a "sticky" in some Forum, it should be. Tks again,Bill

03-30-2008, 03:08 AM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Bill. Lugers At Random is a venerable 30 years old, and much new understanding of Lugers has come about since then. The DWM P-08s chamber dated 1920 and 1921, and proofed with eagles or doves over ArA4 or WaA4, are now recognized as new production, not reworks. The property mark is only 1920, so there are guns chamber stamped 1920/1920 and 1921/1920. --Dwight

03-30-2008, 11:29 AM	#5
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	How many double date artillery Lugers that were in service? And to narrow it down a bit. How many of these were Naval marked? Thanks

04-03-2008, 02:04 PM	#7
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	I have been led to understand that the 1920 thing is a "permission" date, indicating that the terms under which the Allies allowed the Germans to posses such pistols were agreed to in 1920.