Need Advice (Code 42, 1939)

[MJRiggs]

Howdy Everyone,

I am new to the forum, and after reading for several weeks I decided to try my first post to get everyones thoughts on a P.08 that I have owned for years. I picked up the pistol at a local gun show because I always wanted a Luger and this one looked nice and was in my price range. The pistol is a 42 Code with the four digit date (1939), serial number is 2611 w. All the parts appear to be matching with the correct serial number.

Magazine is marked P.08, fxo, and has two e/37 stamps (top and bottom) on the left side. Base is aluminum and is stamped 2611 w +. Should there also be an acceptance mark on the base? What does the fxo mean?

Note from the photos that the finish on the barrel and safety toggle is a much deeper and richer blue than the rest of the pistol. The lip of the barrel at the muzzle has no blue left and is showing bright metal. Both of these parts are stamped with the correct serial numbers. Is this difference in bluing normal or does anyone think these two parts have been refinished?

Also the ejector on the right side is red tint (not rust) rather than blue. Is this what strawed parts look like? It is my understanding that a gun from this period would have all blue parts. Is this color normal for this gun or is this a possible replaced part?

Thanks for any thoughts or information.

Mike

[MJRiggs]

Right side.

[MJRiggs]

Top

[MJRiggs]

Mag base

[Frank]

Hi Mike, WELCOME!!!

Nice looking 1939 Code 42. It's difficult to answer your finish questions. The ejector appears to be correct. Lugers around this time period had various parts that have turned "plum" colored, so don't be concerned about this one.

The "fxo" marking on the magazine is a German Ordnance Code for Haenel, the magazine maker. It's the same idea as the Code "42" on your pistol toggle is the Ordnance Code for Mauser, the Luger manufacturer. Having said that, it is NOT the proper magazine for your pistol and it appears to have been altered by changing the number. The correct magazine for your pistol should have an eagle over 63 Inspection (Waffenamt) Mark stamped on the aluminum bottom.

Hope this helps a little!

[John Sabato]

I agree with Frank, it appears that the bottom of the magazine has been sanded down and a new number installed by engraving, not stamping...

The difference in the ejector process has to do with the difference in the hardness of the steel of the ejector at the time the bluing took place, and also the temperature of the bluing salts... It is pretty common to see them this color when bluing has been attempted.

Looks like you have a nice honest 1939 Mauser... part for that year would have been all blued, not strawed, which is a heat treatement by product that causes the color to be somewhat yellowed on bare steel. Welcome to the Lugerforum.

[Lugerdoc]

Mike, I agree with the above comments. The FXO code mag tubes did not appear until the 1940/41 period. The barrel may have been reblued, but more likely replaced and renumbered. If original,it should also bear the suffix letter (w) below the serial and have a straight winged eagle on the right side. TH

[MJRiggs]

Thanks everyone for your quick and insightful comments. I am really learning a lot from the experts on the different collector forums. I have been a causal collector for a while, but I am just now getting into the fine details of my pieces. Books only go so far, and it is hard to fully trust advice given at the gun shows since the dealers I talk with are usually trying to sell me something. Hope you folks do not mind if I ask some additional questions:

Magazine: I noticed (after Frank and John pointed it out) that the numbers have a slightly different font then the numbers else where, but as far as engraved vs. stamped they all look the same to me. What is the tip off for identifying an engraving from a stamping? Where would I look for a magazine from the correct maker and period even if the numbers do not match?

Barrel: I added some additional photos of the markings on the barrel in hopes that Mr. Heller could let me know if he thinks the barrel is a re-blue or a replacement. The SN 2611 is on the bottom but there is no w suffix. There is also a 8,82 which I assume is the caliber of the barrel. Is this correct for a 9mm? The right side of the barrel has a Nazi proof stamp e/swastika and there is a e/63 inspector stamp high on the left side.

I am encouraged by Frank's comment that I have a "a nice honest 1939 Mauser" but I would like to know if the work on the barrel and the magazine were normally done during a military refit, of if these were steps taken by a previous owner to dress the piece up for a higher selling price from a novice like me?

Please do not pull any punches in your comments. My interest is in collecting honest pieces of military history as they were used in the field rather than in pristine works of the gun makers art. I am OK with honest arsenal reconditioning, but if you guys think this piece has been doctored after the war then I will most likely be looking to replace it with a better quality piece of history.

So what is the bottom line? Do I have a military collectable (even if not a high value one) or just a shooter? Any guess at what this gun is worth in case I decide to try and sell it?

Thanks again,

Mike

[MJRiggs]

SN on barrel

[MJRiggs]

Nazi Stamp

[John Sabato]

Regarding the magazine numbers... if you look closely with a magnifying glass you should see swirl machine marks in the numbers... this is from using a circular engraving tool like a stencil machine or similar tool to creat the numbers. Stamps usually have no such marks, and displace existing metal when they are struck. The bottom view in the photos looks to me as if the metal had been finely ground down or sanded off before the numbers were applied. The other markings on the bottom appear original... examine the lines of those stamps with the marking for the numbers.

The barrel does look to me like a replacement, but it may have happened as part of a military rebuild, especially since the serial numbers on the barrel appear to be the same type as the magazine bottom. How about a closeup photo of the left side of the receiver markings near the chamber? ... and the front of the frame markings above the trigger guard?

The 8.82 is the bore diameter in Millimeters.

Even though the magazine you have is not the orginal type issued with the gun, the FXO type is the BEST luger magazine made.

[Frank]

Mike, I must disagree with the "Lugerdoc"!! There should NOT be a "w" on the bottom of the barrel. This practice was discontinued with the Mauser manufactured Lugers. Your barrel looks okay to me!

[MJRiggs]

John,
I took a look at the magazine numbers under a 30 power binocular microscope and they are definitely stamped. For comparison I took a look at the engraving on my cat's collar tag and I could easily see the swirls that you described, but there are no swirls in the magazine numbers. In fact the two number 1s on the mag base have identical imperfections so I am pretty sure they were made with the same die. However, I did not see any obvious displacement of the metal from the stamping, then again I did not see any of the displaced metal on any of the other stampings on the pistol so it is likely that I just do not know what I am looking for. I am not doubting your read on the re-stamping because I can clearly see were the medal was sanded away (there is a slight dip in the mag base when viewed from straight on), but I believe the renumbering was done by stamping and not engraving. I tried to get you some better close-ups of the mag base, but my camera is just not up to it. Thanks from the education on engraving vice stamping.

Could the magazine have been forced matched during a military rebuild, or was this most likely an attempt at faking a matching mag?

The close-up photos you requested are attached. I noticed that the font of the stamping on the receiver does not match the font on the front of the frame. Notice that the 1 on the receiver has a very long serif (almost looks like a number 7) while the serif on the 1 on the frame is very short. All the other serial number stamping seem to have the long serif on the 1.



Frank,
Thanks for your thoughts on the barrel numberings. My one and only reference is the Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis. Mr. Davis states that for my type of pistol "The full serial number is found on the bottom of the barrel, the front of the frame, and the left side of the receiver" but he does not mention if these locations should also include the serial number suffix. The only places I see the suffix on my P.08 is in front of the frame and on my doctored magazine base.

If I am reading your excellent sticky on Military Mauser Magazines (thank-you for that) I believe the magazine I have is a Type 5, when the pistol would have been issued with a Type 3, is that correct?



All,
How well respected is the Standard Catalog of Luger? I found it to be a good book for the new guys like me since it quickly identified my pistol, but I wonder about a few possible errors in the book. I take these to be publishing errors (since if a newbie like me can spot them I am sure the author knew better). For for example on the page for "Mauser 42 Code, Four-Digit Date" which describes my P.08 the markings section at the bottom of the page shows my pistol should have a "S/42" on the toggle and "e/655" acceptance marks vice the "42" and "e/63" that I believe to be correct.


I just noticed a small dot stamped on the bottom of the frame just in front of the trigger guard. You can see it in the photo above that shows the bottom of the barrel. It looks too deep and uniform to be a ding from the field. Any ideas what this mark is for?

Thanks everyone for all your time and insightful comments. I am really learning a lot and I really enjoy this forum.

Mike

[MJRiggs]

Front of frame

[vtwoodchuck]

Hi, I have an exact duplicate of your Luger with serial no. 4809 w. There is no w by the bbl. serial no. Doug

[MFC]

Mike,
The dot above the trigger gaurd on the front of the frame is the end of the takedown lever spring. Sometimes they protrude out of the hole a little. Yours looks to be flush.
Mike C.

[MJRiggs]

Doug - What does your magazine base look like (can you post a photo)? I'd like to see what the correct mag stamping should be in case I'm ever lucky enough to find my missing mag.

Mike C. - Thanks for the info on the takedown lever spring. I though that it may have been something like that, but did not see any thing on the parts drawing.

Mike

[MJRiggs]

Doug - What does your magazine base look like (can you post a photo)? I'd like to see what the correct mag stamping should be in case I'm ever lucky enough to find my missing mag. Also, how does the blue on your barrel match the rest of the weapon?

Mike C. - Thanks for the info on the takedown lever spring. I though that it may have been something like that, but did not see any thing on the parts drawing.

Mike

[vtwoodchuck]

Hi, I hope this comes through. Doug

[John Sabato]

VERY nice sharp and clear photo! Good Job!