Still wrapped in original box, never fired

GB49 · 02-12-2008, 10:02 PM

My fathers friends father acquired a Luger during the WWII while in Europe.
Supposedly it was never fired, is still wrapped in original paper in the original box.
I may have the opportunity to get my hands on this fine piece of history.
The widow is thinking about selling it so I don't know if it will happen but if it does I will post some photos.

I'm also trying to ballpark a dollar amount for this gun.
Any ideas on price if it is all original and never been fired etc??
Of course for all I know its a pile of rust after sitting in the box for so long. The box may be worth more than the gun.

I'll update as soon as I know more.

-GB

GerColctor · 02-12-2008, 10:22 PM

GB

What model Luger is it, a 1900, 1902, 1906, 1908, 1920, etc.? What is the caliber? Is it a commericial (probably) or a military? As you mentioned, condition is very, very important. e need a lot more info to try and give you an estimate. Pictures are a lot better then a discription.

Joe

John Sabato · 02-13-2008, 08:29 AM

Depending on the model, type, contract, year of manufacture, make of manufacture, finish condition, and a whole series of variables, an unfired Luger can be worth from $1000 to many tens of $1000's of dollars...

On the technical pages of Lugerforum.com you will find Identification forms that you can fill in the answers. This will help in identification and value estimate... but Much more desriptive info is necessary, and photos if at all possible please.

GB49 · 02-13-2008, 09:26 PM

I know the info I provided was very little. Not enough to really make any realistic price predictions.

As it turns out the story has changed a little.
I talked to my father who's friend had the gun in his possession.
Apparently his wifes uncle took the gun off a dead German soldier during WWII.
So it can not be in the original box and paper wrapping. I'm guessing the box and oil paper were purchased either in Europe before sending the gun home or here in the States.
I guess there is also a very high probability that the gun has been fired.

I was also told that all the numbers match but I have no way of knowing for sure until I see it.

My concern is the condition after sitting so many years. The family has no interest in it so I hope it does come my way. I can only wait for a decision to be made. Hopefully it will be in my favor.

If I do acquire it I will post photos.

Thanks,
GB

alvin · 02-13-2008, 10:40 PM

LOL. It sounds like a complex transaction. Your father's friend's father's wife's uncle will sell a Luger to your father's friend's father. In simplified form -- a man's uncle-in-law will sell him a gun.

Since the seller and buyer are relatives, the transaction is probably not pure $ oriented.

====

Sorry. Re-read the previous post. I think I mis-interpreted.... it's someone will sell you a Luger.

The man captured this Luger is 3-generation above. WWII sounds correct.

GB49 · 03-08-2008, 11:38 PM

Ok!
The lady has decided to sell! I've been waiting patiently for her response and its what I was hoping for.

After my father gets back from his "suffering" in the FL sun & fun next month we will go take a look at it.

I will be sure to check if the parts move and all the parts are accounted for, matching numbers, strawing etc.

Cant wait to see it. If I do end up getting it I'll be sure to post some pics!

-GB

GB49 · 04-16-2008, 11:03 PM

I finally got it. Yay!

It looks exactly like this one except for the strawing. Only strawing is the horizontal bar above the right grip.

Its stamped 1936 S/42 on the top. It has the little stamping marks on the side that look like an eagle with drawn wings with a number under each of the 3 stamps.

The numbers don't all match but I read that was typical during the war when parts were replaced etc. Dont know if thats true.

The gun was taken off a dead soldier during WWII. Its been hidden away until today.

I'll get some close up pics of the stamps and everything.

Now its off to the technical info pages.

-GB

Edward Tinker · 04-16-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GB49
I...
The numbers don't all match but I read that was typical during the war when parts were replaced etc. Dont know if thats true.
-GB

I have heard this several times recently. Although I am sure it happened, and a working gun was more important than matching numbers, I believe that mismatched guns are more the fault of GI's and after war sellers than guns being typically mismatched by parts being swapped during war time.

Ed

Big Norm · 04-17-2008, 03:55 AM

GB49,
basically, I go with Ed on this one. But since you sound like a newbie, I would like to take it a bit further. The eagles that you mentioned are proof marks and the numbers under those proof marks are NOT the numbers that should match. When collectors talk about matched numbers, we are talking about the numbers under the barrel and on the front of the frame. The last two digits of THESE numbers should also be on a bunch of other parts that are too many to mention here. Look around your gun and you will probably find most of them.
Big Norm

George Anderson · 04-17-2008, 07:15 AM

With no strawed parts it sounds like an East German gun. Perhaps the story about it being "new in box" has some merit.

GB49 · 04-17-2008, 08:01 AM

The gun was not new or in the box as previously thought. Details get all tangled up when they trickle down from person to person.

The gun does looks to be in exceptionally good shape. No rust or pitting and the bluing looks great. There is also no evident wear inside the chamber. My guess is the gun saw very little/light use during the war. I did find some sandy grit in the 2 clips it came with. It also came with a nice holster which I have yet to locate on any of the photo gallery pages.

From what I gather the top of the gun has parts numbered 16 and the bottom portion is all 51. My guess is its 2 guns in one. When that was done and why I'll never know.

I will post pics and write all numbers down asap.

I plan on taking it to a gun guy I know to have him inspect it and perhaps clean and oil it. I don't want to clean it so it looks like brand new, I just want it cleaned of any dirt and oiled to prevent rusting etc.

Also not sure on the holster. Should I oil it with something to help keep the leather "alive"? I'd like to use something that does not change the color.

Thanks for all the help. Allot of interesting history on this site.

-GB

George Anderson · 04-17-2008, 08:52 AM

How are the magazines marked?

GB49 · 04-17-2008, 09:09 AM

The 2 magazines have separate numbers from the gun and from each other, I think.

They have the usual marking like this one
http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugeralb...closeupmag.jpg

I'll take some pics of the mags as well.

The holster has a slot for the extra mag but also a smaller slot. Is that smaller slot for a cleaning tool?

I have plenty of research to do on this gun. Cant wait to dig in.

-GB

Balder · 04-17-2008, 12:24 PM

GB49,

Congrats on your new gun and welcome to this forum - trust me when I say that you will not find a friendlier or more knowledgeable gun forum on the net. I have learned a lot from these gentlemen, I am sure you will as well. We all look forward to pictures of your gun. And beware - Lugers are contagious little things...

Balder

Steinar · 04-17-2008, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GB49

The holster has a slot for the extra mag but also a smaller slot. Is that smaller slot for a cleaning tool?
-GB

No, it's for a takedown/magazine loading tool. Do a search here in the forum for loading tool, and I'm sure you will find some pictures.
Welcome from me as well! As Balder says, it's a friendly and great forum, so stick around

whcoyote · 05-30-2008, 11:35 PM

In the photo furnished in the link provided by GB49, the take-down lever, trigger, mag release and safety lever appear strawed to me.
Somtimes the tops and bottoms of guns got mixed under emergency conditions. Picture a group of soldiers sitting around cleaning their Lugers. The siren goes off and everybody grabs a top half and puts it on their bottom half - some pistols get mixed up. I have seen several pistols like this and they all seem to function just fine.
Congrats on your first P.08. Enjoy it.
Bob

John Winter · 05-31-2008, 08:48 AM

With the usual exception of the magazine, guess we can be thankful that the vast majority of Lugers do completely match - even after service in two wars. This is the obvious legacy of a military system in which personal accountability for a weapon and its condition was a fundamental component. Mismatches ranging from partial to nearly total seem be increasingly more common in late wartime captures and postwar reworks. Great forum! Wish we'd had it long ago.

02-12-2008, 10:02 PM	#1
GB49 User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Still wrapped in original box, never fired My fathers friends father acquired a Luger during the WWII while in Europe. Supposedly it was never fired, is still wrapped in original paper in the original box. I may have the opportunity to get my hands on this fine piece of history. The widow is thinking about selling it so I don't know if it will happen but if it does I will post some photos. I'm also trying to ballpark a dollar amount for this gun. Any ideas on price if it is all original and never been fired etc?? Of course for all I know its a pile of rust after sitting in the box for so long. The box may be worth more than the gun. I'll update as soon as I know more. -GB

02-12-2008, 10:22 PM	#2
GerColctor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: CT & FL Posts: 315 Thanks: 2 Thanked 48 Times in 31 Posts	GB What model Luger is it, a 1900, 1902, 1906, 1908, 1920, etc.? What is the caliber? Is it a commericial (probably) or a military? As you mentioned, condition is very, very important. e need a lot more info to try and give you an estimate. Pictures are a lot better then a discription. Joe __________________ It is better to have lived a day as a tiger, then a thousand years as a lamb.

02-13-2008, 08:29 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Depending on the model, type, contract, year of manufacture, make of manufacture, finish condition, and a whole series of variables, an unfired Luger can be worth from $1000 to many tens of $1000's of dollars... On the technical pages of Lugerforum.com you will find Identification forms that you can fill in the answers. This will help in identification and value estimate... but Much more desriptive info is necessary, and photos if at all possible please. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-31-2008, 08:48 AM	#17
John Winter User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 55 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	With the usual exception of the magazine, guess we can be thankful that the vast majority of Lugers do completely match - even after service in two wars. This is the obvious legacy of a military system in which personal accountability for a weapon and its condition was a fundamental component. Mismatches ranging from partial to nearly total seem be increasingly more common in late wartime captures and postwar reworks. Great forum! Wish we'd had it long ago. __________________ JRW

02-13-2008, 09:26 PM	#4
GB49 User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I know the info I provided was very little. Not enough to really make any realistic price predictions. As it turns out the story has changed a little. I talked to my father who's friend had the gun in his possession. Apparently his wifes uncle took the gun off a dead German soldier during WWII. So it can not be in the original box and paper wrapping. I'm guessing the box and oil paper were purchased either in Europe before sending the gun home or here in the States. I guess there is also a very high probability that the gun has been fired. I was also told that all the numbers match but I have no way of knowing for sure until I see it. My concern is the condition after sitting so many years. The family has no interest in it so I hope it does come my way. I can only wait for a decision to be made. Hopefully it will be in my favor. If I do acquire it I will post photos. Thanks, GB

02-13-2008, 10:40 PM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	LOL. It sounds like a complex transaction. Your father's friend's father's wife's uncle will sell a Luger to your father's friend's father. In simplified form -- a man's uncle-in-law will sell him a gun. Since the seller and buyer are relatives, the transaction is probably not pure $ oriented. ==== Sorry. Re-read the previous post. I think I mis-interpreted.... it's someone will sell you a Luger. The man captured this Luger is 3-generation above. WWII sounds correct.

03-08-2008, 11:38 PM	#6
GB49 User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok! The lady has decided to sell! I've been waiting patiently for her response and its what I was hoping for. After my father gets back from his "suffering" in the FL sun & fun next month we will go take a look at it. I will be sure to check if the parts move and all the parts are accounted for, matching numbers, strawing etc. Cant wait to see it. If I do end up getting it I'll be sure to post some pics! -GB

04-16-2008, 11:03 PM	#7
GB49 User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I finally got it. Yay! It looks exactly like this one except for the strawing. Only strawing is the horizontal bar above the right grip. Its stamped 1936 S/42 on the top. It has the little stamping marks on the side that look like an eagle with drawn wings with a number under each of the 3 stamps. The numbers don't all match but I read that was typical during the war when parts were replaced etc. Dont know if thats true. The gun was taken off a dead soldier during WWII. Its been hidden away until today. I'll get some close up pics of the stamps and everything. Now its off to the technical info pages. -GB

04-17-2008, 03:55 AM	#9
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	GB49, basically, I go with Ed on this one. But since you sound like a newbie, I would like to take it a bit further. The eagles that you mentioned are proof marks and the numbers under those proof marks are NOT the numbers that should match. When collectors talk about matched numbers, we are talking about the numbers under the barrel and on the front of the frame. The last two digits of THESE numbers should also be on a bunch of other parts that are too many to mention here. Look around your gun and you will probably find most of them. Big Norm

04-17-2008, 07:15 AM	#10
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	With no strawed parts it sounds like an East German gun. Perhaps the story about it being "new in box" has some merit.

04-17-2008, 08:01 AM	#11
GB49 User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The gun was not new or in the box as previously thought. Details get all tangled up when they trickle down from person to person. The gun does looks to be in exceptionally good shape. No rust or pitting and the bluing looks great. There is also no evident wear inside the chamber. My guess is the gun saw very little/light use during the war. I did find some sandy grit in the 2 clips it came with. It also came with a nice holster which I have yet to locate on any of the photo gallery pages. From what I gather the top of the gun has parts numbered 16 and the bottom portion is all 51. My guess is its 2 guns in one. When that was done and why I'll never know. I will post pics and write all numbers down asap. I plan on taking it to a gun guy I know to have him inspect it and perhaps clean and oil it. I don't want to clean it so it looks like brand new, I just want it cleaned of any dirt and oiled to prevent rusting etc. Also not sure on the holster. Should I oil it with something to help keep the leather "alive"? I'd like to use something that does not change the color. Thanks for all the help. Allot of interesting history on this site. -GB

04-17-2008, 08:52 AM	#12
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	How are the magazines marked?

04-17-2008, 09:09 AM	#13
GB49 User Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The 2 magazines have separate numbers from the gun and from each other, I think. They have the usual marking like this one http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugeralb...closeupmag.jpg I'll take some pics of the mags as well. The holster has a slot for the extra mag but also a smaller slot. Is that smaller slot for a cleaning tool? I have plenty of research to do on this gun. Cant wait to dig in. -GB

04-17-2008, 12:24 PM	#14
Balder User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 288 Thanks: 20 Thanked 34 Times in 19 Posts	GB49, Congrats on your new gun and welcome to this forum - trust me when I say that you will not find a friendlier or more knowledgeable gun forum on the net. I have learned a lot from these gentlemen, I am sure you will as well. We all look forward to pictures of your gun. And beware - Lugers are contagious little things... Balder

05-30-2008, 11:35 PM	#16
whcoyote User Join Date: May 2008 Location: SW Virginia Posts: 75 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts	In the photo furnished in the link provided by GB49, the take-down lever, trigger, mag release and safety lever appear strawed to me. Somtimes the tops and bottoms of guns got mixed under emergency conditions. Picture a group of soldiers sitting around cleaning their Lugers. The siren goes off and everybody grabs a top half and puts it on their bottom half - some pistols get mixed up. I have seen several pistols like this and they all seem to function just fine. Congrats on your first P.08. Enjoy it. Bob