New to me DWM commercial.

barr44 · 12-11-2007, 08:17 PM

This is a 7.65mm DWM commercial(DWM inscribed on the rear toggle link), s.n. 5847 lower case 'o'. The word Germany is stamped between the number and the lower case 'o', on the front of the frame. The gun looks to be in like new condition, with a little holster wear on the high spots. It has the crown N proof on the left side of the receiver, on the underside of the barrel and on the side of the front toggle link(lazy N). The barrel has the Crown N and the serial no. with the lower case 'o' on the underside. It has a 3 7/8" barrel. There is no date on the chamber and no other marks on the piece and I don't believe it has the modified safety. I believe that all of the parts that are normally numbered for the commercial model are numbered and they match.
The magazine is the tinned version with a wooden bottom piece with Germany stamped on the bottom of the wood. There are no other marks on the magazine.
The bore is sharp and clean and the overall finish on the piece is 90 to 95%. The bolt face is clean and from the overall looks of the mechanism, it seems to have not been fired much, if any. The inside portion of the frame is still in the white, it doesn't appear to have ever been blued.
I have included a couple of images of the gun.
I would appreciate any info, that you guys would care to share with me on when it was made and any other pertinent information. Also, would the grips necessarily be numbered. They are not numbered but fit so well, that I find it hard to believe that they are replacements. Would the word Germany stamped on the gun indicate it was to be exported to Britain or to the U.S.?
Thanks, robarr.

These are the image files for the above mentioned DWM commercial:

MFC · 12-11-2007, 11:39 PM

robarr,
Your Alphabet DWM commercial was made late 1925- early 1926. Everything is correct as you described, including the GERMANY stamped mag. bottom and the grips which were not numbered.
Mike C.

Edward Tinker · 12-12-2007, 02:19 AM

nice looking commerical luger

wdavid431 · 12-12-2007, 07:07 AM

Wow, one great looking Luger pistol. Congrats.

barr44 · 12-16-2007, 01:50 PM

Thanks guys,
For your input. As always, your information was helpful.
barr

alvin · 03-16-2008, 07:31 PM

Nice gun!

Page 24 of "Simson Lugers" (T&J, 2007) says "17,000 Weimer 5 digit serial number and 90,000 Weimer Alphabet serial number new Lugers manufactured by DWM prior to 1930". So, this is one of those 90,000.

I have one as well. Love this thing.

Heinz · 03-19-2008, 07:48 PM

Very nice looking commercial.
Barrel lengths can vary from 3 15/16 to 3 5/8. I like the longer models.

Although the ammo is expensive, these are very sweet to shoot.

Yours would have been produced around 1925 in the heyday of the Weimar Republic and it is a genuine DWM product. The Germany stamping indicate that it was produced for export to an English speaking country. The lack of British proofs strongly suggests it was originally for export to the US. There are a number of variations that make these pistols interesting. DWM progressed from using up surplus WWI parts to completely fabricating new parts for the commercials. Times were tough in Germany and it is likely that only the best of the gunsmiths remained in DWM employ at this time.

Pull the reciever out of the frame and see if you have a full or partial serial number stamped on the barrel lug. I would also be interested in if your barrel has a Crown N proof.

Thanks, Heinz

alvin · 03-21-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heinz
Pull the reciever out of the frame and see if you have a full or partial serial number stamped on the barrel lug.

Davis' book "Luger Catalog" says the receiver of 1920 commerical should be numbered. I've looked a few dismantled guns on auction sites, also one in my hand, I did not see any number on the receiver.

Not sure Davis was totally wrong on DWM 1920, or there are sub-variations having numbered receiver. Or, misprint.

Dwight Gruber · 03-21-2008, 02:03 PM

Barry,

Davis's book is full of misinformation, and cannot be relied upon for diagnostic use. See this link: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ghlight=aarron

The Alphabet Commercial Luger ("1920 Commercial") will not be found with a serial number "on the receiver" (presuming the left receiver here) in its original configuration. A gun which has been taken into Police service may have its serial number stamped there, it would be done by the police arsenal.

Pre-WWI commercial Lugers generally have the last two digits of their serial number stamped on the recoil lug on the bottom of the receiver; sometimes this is accompanied by the previous one or two numbers stamped immediately in front of it. After the war this practice was abandoned.

--Dwight

alvin · 03-21-2008, 02:51 PM

Dwight -- Thanks for the excellent review! I'm happy that I made right decision to leave it on Barnes & Noble's book shelf. My sixth sense worked again.

It's funny to read Amazon.com reviews on the same book. One guy wrote:

Very good work is shown us by Mr. AArron, I would hope that he goes back to write another one on lets say...Colts...Smiths....Rugers.....Winchesters....Thompsons.....

He got sense of humor.

======

Rule of Thumb: In B&N or Borders, if a Luger book sits in the middle of Effective Self-Defense, How to Shoot Well in Range, DIY Gunsmith, etc, ALARM: something is wrong.

alvin · 03-21-2008, 08:19 PM

For all commercial Weimar Alphabets that I've seen so far, the one in best original condition is still mine. Feel it's a little selfish just looking at other people's guns without posting one.... so here it is, 1323n (a little dark, ordered a light box, not arrived yet):

Enjoy

barr44 · 06-23-2008, 05:40 PM

Heinz,
With the receiver removed, I cannot see any numbers on the receiver lug, which I presume is what you refer to as the 'barrel lug'.
The full serial no. is stamped on the bottom of the barrel and just forward of the number there is the C/N. The serial no. on the barrel has a 'halo' which I assume indicates that the number was applied after the barrel was blued.
Hope this helps, although I am slightly late in replying.
barr

12-11-2007, 08:17 PM	#1
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 153 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	New to me DWM commercial. This is a 7.65mm DWM commercial(DWM inscribed on the rear toggle link), s.n. 5847 lower case 'o'. The word Germany is stamped between the number and the lower case 'o', on the front of the frame. The gun looks to be in like new condition, with a little holster wear on the high spots. It has the crown N proof on the left side of the receiver, on the underside of the barrel and on the side of the front toggle link(lazy N). The barrel has the Crown N and the serial no. with the lower case 'o' on the underside. It has a 3 7/8" barrel. There is no date on the chamber and no other marks on the piece and I don't believe it has the modified safety. I believe that all of the parts that are normally numbered for the commercial model are numbered and they match. The magazine is the tinned version with a wooden bottom piece with Germany stamped on the bottom of the wood. There are no other marks on the magazine. The bore is sharp and clean and the overall finish on the piece is 90 to 95%. The bolt face is clean and from the overall looks of the mechanism, it seems to have not been fired much, if any. The inside portion of the frame is still in the white, it doesn't appear to have ever been blued. I have included a couple of images of the gun. I would appreciate any info, that you guys would care to share with me on when it was made and any other pertinent information. Also, would the grips necessarily be numbered. They are not numbered but fit so well, that I find it hard to believe that they are replacements. Would the word Germany stamped on the gun indicate it was to be exported to Britain or to the U.S.? Thanks, robarr. These are the image files for the above mentioned DWM commercial:

12-11-2007, 11:39 PM	#2
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	robarr, Your Alphabet DWM commercial was made late 1925- early 1926. Everything is correct as you described, including the GERMANY stamped mag. bottom and the grips which were not numbered. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

12-12-2007, 02:19 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	nice looking commerical luger __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-12-2007, 07:07 AM	#4
wdavid431 User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Wow, one great looking Luger pistol. Congrats. __________________ W David

12-16-2007, 01:50 PM	#5
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 153 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Thanks guys, For your input. As always, your information was helpful. barr

03-16-2008, 07:31 PM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Nice gun! Page 24 of "Simson Lugers" (T&J, 2007) says "17,000 Weimer 5 digit serial number and 90,000 Weimer Alphabet serial number new Lugers manufactured by DWM prior to 1930". So, this is one of those 90,000. I have one as well. Love this thing.

03-19-2008, 07:48 PM	#7
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 411 Times in 180 Posts	Very nice looking commercial. Barrel lengths can vary from 3 15/16 to 3 5/8. I like the longer models. Although the ammo is expensive, these are very sweet to shoot. Yours would have been produced around 1925 in the heyday of the Weimar Republic and it is a genuine DWM product. The Germany stamping indicate that it was produced for export to an English speaking country. The lack of British proofs strongly suggests it was originally for export to the US. There are a number of variations that make these pistols interesting. DWM progressed from using up surplus WWI parts to completely fabricating new parts for the commercials. Times were tough in Germany and it is likely that only the best of the gunsmiths remained in DWM employ at this time. Pull the reciever out of the frame and see if you have a full or partial serial number stamped on the barrel lug. I would also be interested in if your barrel has a Crown N proof. Thanks, Heinz

03-21-2008, 02:03 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Barry, Davis's book is full of misinformation, and cannot be relied upon for diagnostic use. See this link: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ghlight=aarron The Alphabet Commercial Luger ("1920 Commercial") will not be found with a serial number "on the receiver" (presuming the left receiver here) in its original configuration. A gun which has been taken into Police service may have its serial number stamped there, it would be done by the police arsenal. Pre-WWI commercial Lugers generally have the last two digits of their serial number stamped on the recoil lug on the bottom of the receiver; sometimes this is accompanied by the previous one or two numbers stamped immediately in front of it. After the war this practice was abandoned. --Dwight

03-21-2008, 02:51 PM	#10
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Dwight -- Thanks for the excellent review! I'm happy that I made right decision to leave it on Barnes & Noble's book shelf. My sixth sense worked again. It's funny to read Amazon.com reviews on the same book. One guy wrote: Very good work is shown us by Mr. AArron, I would hope that he goes back to write another one on lets say...Colts...Smiths....Rugers.....Winchesters....Thompsons..... He got sense of humor. ====== Rule of Thumb: In B&N or Borders, if a Luger book sits in the middle of Effective Self-Defense, How to Shoot Well in Range, DIY Gunsmith, etc, ALARM: something is wrong.

03-21-2008, 08:19 PM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	For all commercial Weimar Alphabets that I've seen so far, the one in best original condition is still mine. Feel it's a little selfish just looking at other people's guns without posting one.... so here it is, 1323n (a little dark, ordered a light box, not arrived yet): Enjoy

06-23-2008, 05:40 PM	#12
barr44 User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: york co., va Posts: 153 Thanks: 27 Thanked 35 Times in 21 Posts	Heinz, With the receiver removed, I cannot see any numbers on the receiver lug, which I presume is what you refer to as the 'barrel lug'. The full serial no. is stamped on the bottom of the barrel and just forward of the number there is the C/N. The serial no. on the barrel has a 'halo' which I assume indicates that the number was applied after the barrel was blued. Hope this helps, although I am slightly late in replying. barr