firing pin down on a live cartridge

[renaissance7697]

Playing with my 1940 "42"
I came to realize that by retracting the toggle just a half inch or so, I was able to **** the firing pin and the toggle snapped in place remaining in this position.

I also noticed that if in this position ( the toggle "snapped" in place 1/2 inch back)
that
If I pulled the trigger while Holding back the goggle ears, and then just let the toggle ease down gently, the firing pin "decocked".

This seems to be a better way to decock the firing pin when storing the pistol than to just "dry Fire" it.

I didn't try ( was called away ) but afterward, wondered if you coud do the same thing with a round (live or not) in the chamber.

Will the toggle snap in place and remain ( 1/2 inch back) if the firing pin is cocked.

This would be one way to check for a loaded round in chamber

What about "easing the toggle back down" (simultaneously easing the firing pin down) on a chamber with a live round in the chamber.

This sounds like a bad thing to do.
Firing pin wcould be resting on the primer of a live shell
( Is the firing pin in the luger a "rebounding" deal ?)
Could a "jarring' ( i.e. dropping the pistol - set off a live round.

Were Lugers carried "Cocked and locked" like a 1911?

Working the action to get a live round from a full magazine to an empty chamber feels to me; to be a much more "difficult/awkward" manuver than a the slide of a 1911 even.

Requires Finger strength in the off hand that many people can not muster easily. It is even more difficult If you have to **** the firing pin as well as work the action.

So many questions...............

Got to go now

Boss is coming

[John Sabato]

Hi Phil,

NEVER rest the firing pin on a live primer... it is not rebounding, it is spring loaded...and extremely dangerous to do so. Trying to lower the breechblock by pulling the trigger when there is a live round in the chamber would most likely result in a very lound noise and a .354 inch hole wherever the gun was pointed at the time...

You can tell if there is a round in the chamber, even in the dark, simply because the extractor is raised above the breechblock... it was designed that way.

Lugers were either carried completely safe, with no round in the chamber (If you have a problem manipulating the toggle you need to carry a different kind of pistol), or cocked and locked...

I suggest that you buy a very inexpensive e-book by Gerard Henrotin on the Luger Mechanicals... it has great illustrations and makes understanding the mechanics and engineering of the Luger very easy even for a beginner. The link for his Luger e-books is on Links & Resources Page of this website. His animation of the luger firing cycle graces our homepage through his courtesy.

[Snakeman]

I agree with John completely, NEVER decock over a live round, I mean NEVER. That said I would recommend the use of "dummy" bullets if you want to dry practice or have a safe letdown of the sear/firing pin of your P-08. These are commercially available from many sources, but as a reloader I�´ve made my own by removing the primer from a resized case and glueing in a plug of hard polyurithane rubber (using "Liquisole" or"Liquiseam") in the primer seat, drilling a couple of holes in the case (to prevent confusion between live and dummy rounds), seating a new bullet and now you have a real good "dummy". I use these for "dry-fire " practice in all my center fire guns (a bunch of different calibers) as I have both heard of and seen the results of firing pin damage due to not using firing pin support- most firing pins are not designed to take the abuse of repeatedly falling on an empty chamber (and the P-08 is right on the top of the list- compare the total weight to any other firing pin- think inertia). My advice to you is to NEVER dry-fire a P-08 without a healthy dummy cartridge in the chamber. I hope this helps.

[John Sabato]

Lou,

I have to respectfully disagree with your assertion that this is a safe practice. Regardless of the fact that you have not personally had an accident for 20 years of Luger collecting. The fact is that the firing pin resting on the primer is in a tension condition, and dropping the firearm could cause the pin to "bounce" because it is under spring tension and easily could cause an accidental discharge. I know personally of a court case that was dramatized on TV about an altercation where one of the participants pulled a loaded Luger from his pocket to use during the fight. NOT as a firearm, but simply as a club.

The gun had a round in the chamber with the firing pin resting on the primer as you described with the safety on. You must understand that in this condition, the safety cannot prevent the firing pin from bouncing because the pin is already past the sear.

The person holding the gun tried to strike the attacker with the Luger as a blunt object and when he did so, the gun discharged when the gun was dropped or knocked from his hand and struck the ground. Unfortunately, the round passed through the front of the store where this occured and struck someone on the other side of the street. I don't recall if the injury was fatal or not.

The judge in the case commended the owner of the Luger for not trying to use it as a firearm during the fight, but also ruled that because the gun was loaded, no matter why the gun discharged, the owner who was carrying it (Legally) was liable for the damage and injury to the innocent bystander...

I could never recommend that a Luger pistol be placed in this condition. Cocked and Locked, on the other hand, is perfectly safe because the sear is prevented from moving by the safety lever. The sear would have to break for a Luger to accidently discharge from this condition.

[John Sabato]

Lou, you are welcome to act as you wish with your guns and believe what ever you like, but we certainly disagree on this matter. You saying "case is closed" closes nothing but your mind. This is a friendly place and disagreements or differences of opinon are common, but arguments and attacks are not permitted. No one has attacked you. You disagree with my stance on this matter? you are entitled to do that, but your assertion that this is a good and safe practice won't likely find much support here.

"I read that even Fred Datiq did it." ...please tell us where you read this... at one time or another I have owned practically every book ever written on the Luger, and still own many of them... and I have never read that.

Primer sensitivity is another matter entirely, but I don't know many who have reloaded ammunition for many years who haven't had at least one primer go off during the seating process... all primers vary in detonation sensitivity... pistol primers from different manufacturers vary from each other.

There is a lot to learn on this forum. I have studied Lugers for over 50 years and handled hundreds of them. I have been moderating this forum for over 10 years and I don't know it all, and don't know anyone who does. We share information here, not dictate it. Enjoy your visits, and try to make sure everyone who visits does too...






You really have dropped 10 Lugers hundreds of times?

[sabbathmusic]

I had a Mitchell Arms LUger, that had a cast striker, I had to replace it with a real WW2 Striker for the casting of the thing would rub on the breechblock and caused resistence on the striker plunge impact and not fire the round,(Primers are not that delicate) these little casting marks caused resitence rubbing on the breechblock as it moved forward, if this is possible, HOW can a gun not be safe with it loaded but not cocked? I WOULD not trust the safety on a Luger from flipping off and the gun going off, I WOULD not use a Luger for home defense now in 2010. I have a double action P-1 for that. At least with the loaded but not cocked, the trigger will not pull, that is the danger, if you disengage a safety lever on accident and that trigger falls, nothing is going to stop that gun from going off.

[DavidJayUden]

"what I read on this forum, I sure do not need anyone teaching me anything."
That just about says it all.
I'm getting the impression that somebody has been up for the last 72 hours and will be crashing soon...
dju

[sabbathmusic]

Ha ha ha, good you guys have a sense of HUMMER! Don't forgewt to JB weld your trigger bar!

[John Sabato]

FORMER MEMBER sabbathmusic has been banned for inappropriate behavior and language.

[John D.]

Thank you John!!!



John