Holster Question...first post!

beeman · 03-09-2007, 12:13 AM

I recently purchased a holster and have a few questions regarding same.

It's a brown PO8 holster, in excellent question, with the exception of the half-torn strap that secures the top flap. It's got no evident Wermacht acceptance stamps on the exterior but is deeply stamped with "Handwerk kemmer" in a semi-circle over "von Oborfranken" on the inside of the top flap. Also marked nearby in the top flap, in what looks to be in black ink is "B.A. XI" or "R.A. XI". Also included is the take-down tool with what looks like a marking of an elaborate crown over a 9.

Is this a commercial holster? Any input would be greatly appreciated! I will follow with pics of the markings...the batteries in the camera are kaput at the moment and I have no replacements on hand.

Also, this holster was mated to a 95% (conservatively estimated" 1939 42 marked all matching PO8 with an unmatching wood-bottomed mag (but within 100 of the serial number of the pistol). There is no wear to the extractor or bolt-face of the pistol and nary a scratch on the feed ramps, etc of the mag. Is the holster a correct match to the pistol?

All feedback is appreciated!

Edward Tinker · 03-09-2007, 12:22 AM

Welcome to the forum Brian.

The holster sounds like a WW1 era one, pictures would help much.

The magazine, although within a 100 is an incorrect era, by 1939, all magazine bottoms were aluminum. Someone found a close matching and placed it together with the pistol. I have done the same thing, although I will not sell it as a matching gun.

Ed

beeman · 03-09-2007, 12:29 AM

Thanks Ed, I appreciate the feedback!

I'll post pictures of both the holster and the PO8 tomorrow and welcome all comments, etc.

I picked up both pieces along with a pristine 1903-A3, an unmolested 1898 Krag and a handful of Garand bayonets (cut and uncut) a few days ago. An older gent I had met was liquidating his collection and I got quite a deal on the pieces I selected.

I appreciate the information and knowledge shared on this site and look forward to learning a great deal from those of you on the forum!

Ron Smith · 03-09-2007, 09:13 AM

Brian,

The holster is an Imperial (WWI) issue. B.A.XI is Bekleidungsamt 11. Clothing Depot for the 11th Army Corps.

Ron

beeman · 03-09-2007, 04:48 PM

Ron, Ed,

Thanks for the info!

Here are a few pictures of the holster:

lugerholsterrepair · 03-09-2007, 08:05 PM

Beeman, An odd WW1 military holster in a couple of ways..Rarely see them this early made with black thread. The buckle holder is a strange pebble leather..Nice looking holster though. Jerry Burney

beeman · 03-12-2007, 06:43 PM

Thanks Jerry. Any thoughts on having the half-torn strap repaired? Would it decrease the value and is it best left "as is"? I would eventually like to pick up the correct holster and magazine(s) for the '39 luger and would like to keep the WWI era holster in the hopes of finding the right pistol to someday fill it...

How about the manufacturer? I am under the impression that a great deal of the WWI era holsters were privately made by saddlers, etc...has anyone run across these markings before? (handwerk kemmer and on Oborfranken) Thanks!

lugerholsterrepair · 03-12-2007, 11:28 PM

Beeman, You must realize the era these holsters were made in. There must have been literaly thousands of military leather items required by the German Army at the turn of the Century. Manufacturing was not centralized in large factories. Germany was made up of City States and was quite rural. The leather contracts were given to small Saddlers all over the country. Cottage industries many of them.
There is a list somewhere on the Forum, a sticky I believe that has several hundred holster manufacturers. I know Ed put it somewhere but I am a computer idiot and don't know where it is.
I am often asked about repairs and if they add value. If you smashed the fender on your car, would fixing it add value? To some people, yes. Others might not think so. It depends on what type of collector you are and how you feel about preserving your collection. It also depends on who does the restoration. Will it be good enough..Up to the standards of the holster when it was made. If you like the holster the way it is, leave it.
Keep looking..I am sure you can find a nice Imperial pistol for it!
Jerry Burney

wlyon · 03-13-2007, 07:32 AM

Beeman If your thinking of having the holster repaired, which I certaintly would, go no further than Jerry Burney. He is the best. Bill

Ron Smith · 03-13-2007, 09:21 AM

Bill,

Not too loud... he might hear you. We don't want to get him too pumped up.

Ron

03-09-2007, 12:13 AM	#1
beeman User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Holster Question...first post! I recently purchased a holster and have a few questions regarding same. It's a brown PO8 holster, in excellent question, with the exception of the half-torn strap that secures the top flap. It's got no evident Wermacht acceptance stamps on the exterior but is deeply stamped with "Handwerk kemmer" in a semi-circle over "von Oborfranken" on the inside of the top flap. Also marked nearby in the top flap, in what looks to be in black ink is "B.A. XI" or "R.A. XI". Also included is the take-down tool with what looks like a marking of an elaborate crown over a 9. Is this a commercial holster? Any input would be greatly appreciated! I will follow with pics of the markings...the batteries in the camera are kaput at the moment and I have no replacements on hand. Also, this holster was mated to a 95% (conservatively estimated" 1939 42 marked all matching PO8 with an unmatching wood-bottomed mag (but within 100 of the serial number of the pistol). There is no wear to the extractor or bolt-face of the pistol and nary a scratch on the feed ramps, etc of the mag. Is the holster a correct match to the pistol? All feedback is appreciated!

03-09-2007, 12:22 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Welcome to the forum Brian. The holster sounds like a WW1 era one, pictures would help much. The magazine, although within a 100 is an incorrect era, by 1939, all magazine bottoms were aluminum. Someone found a close matching and placed it together with the pistol. I have done the same thing, although I will not sell it as a matching gun. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-09-2007, 09:13 AM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Brian, The holster is an Imperial (WWI) issue. B.A.XI is Bekleidungsamt 11. Clothing Depot for the 11th Army Corps. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-09-2007, 08:05 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,866 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Beeman, An odd WW1 military holster in a couple of ways..Rarely see them this early made with black thread. The buckle holder is a strange pebble leather..Nice looking holster though. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-12-2007, 11:28 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,866 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Beeman, You must realize the era these holsters were made in. There must have been literaly thousands of military leather items required by the German Army at the turn of the Century. Manufacturing was not centralized in large factories. Germany was made up of City States and was quite rural. The leather contracts were given to small Saddlers all over the country. Cottage industries many of them. There is a list somewhere on the Forum, a sticky I believe that has several hundred holster manufacturers. I know Ed put it somewhere but I am a computer idiot and don't know where it is. I am often asked about repairs and if they add value. If you smashed the fender on your car, would fixing it add value? To some people, yes. Others might not think so. It depends on what type of collector you are and how you feel about preserving your collection. It also depends on who does the restoration. Will it be good enough..Up to the standards of the holster when it was made. If you like the holster the way it is, leave it. Keep looking..I am sure you can find a nice Imperial pistol for it! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-09-2007, 12:29 AM	#3
beeman User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ed, I appreciate the feedback! I'll post pictures of both the holster and the PO8 tomorrow and welcome all comments, etc. I picked up both pieces along with a pristine 1903-A3, an unmolested 1898 Krag and a handful of Garand bayonets (cut and uncut) a few days ago. An older gent I had met was liquidating his collection and I got quite a deal on the pieces I selected. I appreciate the information and knowledge shared on this site and look forward to learning a great deal from those of you on the forum!

03-09-2007, 04:48 PM	#5
beeman User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, Ed, Thanks for the info! Here are a few pictures of the holster:

03-12-2007, 06:43 PM	#7
beeman User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Jerry. Any thoughts on having the half-torn strap repaired? Would it decrease the value and is it best left "as is"? I would eventually like to pick up the correct holster and magazine(s) for the '39 luger and would like to keep the WWI era holster in the hopes of finding the right pistol to someday fill it... How about the manufacturer? I am under the impression that a great deal of the WWI era holsters were privately made by saddlers, etc...has anyone run across these markings before? (handwerk kemmer and on Oborfranken) Thanks!

03-13-2007, 07:32 AM	#9
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,619 Thanks: 3,145 Thanked 2,531 Times in 943 Posts	Beeman If your thinking of having the holster repaired, which I certaintly would, go no further than Jerry Burney. He is the best. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

03-13-2007, 09:21 AM	#10
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Bill, Not too loud... he might hear you. We don't want to get him too pumped up. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...