From a new member to new members

[davidkachel]

I've only been on this forum a few weeks, and my knowledge of Lugers is limited to recognizing a Luger shape from across a room and being incredibly naive when it comes to Lugers in general. (I am a gun "collector" after a fashion and just never learned much about Lugers.)
However, I do have a great deal of experience with internet forums and gun collectors/experts in general. (been into guns and going to guns shows since the early 60's)

From my limited experience, here's what you can expect on this forum and as it compares to other places with regard to Lugers:

No matter how stupid a question you may ask, no one is going to put you down for it, talk down to you or ignore you. With regard to courtesy, kindness and willingness to help, the folks here are an order of magnitude ahead of anywhere else you are likely to go. No one has an "agenda". What you see is what you get.

Lugers are probably the biggest scam item around with regard to guns. There are most likely more "faked" Lugers floating around than any other model of weapon (by faked, I mean altered and/or represented as something they are not). Lugers are also more frequently absurdly over-priced than most any other firearm.

Go to gunsamerica.com and search for "Luger". Look at the pictures, prices and descriptions, then compare what you learn to what you find here. Seems like two different worlds, doesn't it!? Then check out other sites that sell Lugers. You'll find the same. You can find good deals elsewhere, but I would estimate that your chances of being "taken" are well above 50%.

Why the discrepancy (huge)? People in general don't know anything about Lugers (like me), know they are highly sought after by collectors and expect high prices, making it easy (or at least possible) to sell a $500 shooter as a $2000 collector's item. (one born every minute).

If you can get $2000 for your $500 shooter on gunsamerica.com, by all means. But if you want to purchase a Luger, or give and receive fair deals, I would consider this forum to be the only wise choice and safe haven. You may have to wait a little longer for what you want to become available, but you don't have to worry about being cheated (this doesn't mean you shouldn't be cautions, but in reading a LOT of posts here, I see that unhappy buyers are scarce indeed).

You don't have to be here very long to realize that these guys REALLY know what they're talking about and are not out to scam anyone. (Anyone can become a member here, so a scammer can slip in just as easily as anyone else, but they seem to get "spotted" pretty quickly.) The folks here inspire confidence because it is plain they are a network of collectors interested in improving their collections and helping others do the same and not just a bunch of gun dealers out for a quick killing.

So if you are interested in becoming a knowledgeable Luger collector, or (like me) just want to add one fancy shooter Luger to an eclectic collection (and possibly learn enough to lessen the likelihood of buying a fake somewhere else) or just want to be a Luger "groupie", you've come to the right place. If these guys don't make you feel comfortable and secure in the first couple of days, you probably wouldn't feel comfortable anywhere.

If this were a hotel, it would absolutely rate 5 stars.

[policeluger]

I can't take credit for this, bot WO!!!

[Steinar]

It is indeed a very helpful and friendly forum

Recently I was visiting another forum about hunting, but stopped spending time there due to all the disrespectful postings, endless arguing and 'trolling' from the youngest members. Lugerforum is heaven compared.. and since my time only stretches to follow one forum, this is my forum of choice.

[pipeman45]

Well said. It's called integrity. Something thats in short supply around this old world, but in abundance around here.

[Steve Richards]

Thank you for the kind words. I do not post very often but I do feel a part of this forum and collection of lunatics.

Steve

[Ron Wood]

Steve,
That's "lugertics"...lunatics are much more sane.

[davidkachel]

Addendum:

At the risk of seeming unfair to the other people on this forum who have Lugers for sale, here is the result of my recent experience...

I bought a 6" S/42, mixed numbers, Thor restored Luger from Hugh which arrived today. (Without the 3 red dots Thor puts in a discrete spot, I suspect most people would be hard pressed to tell his restorations from original finishes.)
I purchased it for $1060 (incl shipping, a specialized front sight and a new, blued 9mm barrel), which I believe is a very good price.
It is different from and better than what I originally said I wanted (describe what you want, but it is wise to let these guys steer you in the right direction; I'm happy I did).
It looks as good or better than Hugh described it.
It functions flawlessly.
I bought it without grips. Hugh sent a pair of grips anyway.
I expected to get it toward the end of the month. He shipped it to me much sooner than I expected, and sent it 2nd day air, which I also did not expect.

I got more than I paid for, got exactly what was described and got it sooner than told.
The only problem is that I have a tough time seeing the front sight (inside joke only Hugh will get).

This Luger is the only thing I've bought here, so I can't relate purchase experiences with any of the other members of this forum, but I strongly suspect they would be similar.

There's simply an atmosphere of integrity here that is hard to find elsewhere. I like it a lot and even though I now have the one Luger I came here to get (not a Luger collector), I plan to stay and will feel comfortable buying from or selling to most any of these guys (except maybe that guy with the dancing trooper picture... there's just something about him??? <grin> ).

[Edward Tinker]

you ripped off my friend Hugh!


I think he has eyes for something, cuz he's selling things tooooo cheap, but glad it worked out for you!



Ed

[davidkachel]

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
you ripped off my friend Hugh!


I think he has eyes for something, cuz he's selling things tooooo cheap, but glad it worked out for you!



Ed

I think he was just impressed with the profundity of my ignorance and took pity on me.
He probably caught on when I spelled it, "Looger"!

[Hugh]

The only thing worse than "Lugeritis" is "Colt SAAitis"! And when you start changing horses, it sure helps to have a safe full of Lugers!

[davidkachel]

Speaking of SAA's.
I have lots of single actions, usually in pairs, but there's one pair I want and I frankly don't understand why no one makes replicas of them...

I would buy a pair of SAA's matching the two John Wayne had in The Shootist, in a heartbeat, and probably do something morally reprehensible to get the cash.

I know I'm far from alone. Why hasn't some enterprising manufacturer realized that these would sell like hot cakes?

The originals are out of the question. I understand one of his sons has them.
1. Not a prayer he'd part with them.
2. Their cost would rival that of the 2nd World War.

I would think no dealer would be able to keep them in stock, or do you guys think I'm nuts?


(Hey, maybe they're inside that box on gunsamerica.com!)

[jamese]

David,
thank you for the comments about the Forum, I have been a member here for a few years and I agree that these guys are the best.
Many of these guys I have never meet in person, but they can be fully trusted at their word, which is rare nowdays.

The other thing I find, is they still talk to me even after finding out I'm a cop.

Jim

[davidkachel]

Originally posted by jamese

The other thing I find, is they still talk to me even after finding out I'm a cop.

Jim

A cop!! Click, buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. <grin>

I know your comment was probably tongue-in-cheek, but I'll respond anyway, just because it's early Sunday morning, I can't sleep, and so I'm wasting bandwidth.

I've noticed over the years that gun people are generally more "cop friendly" than the general populace. Gun folks are just more likely to "get it" than others.
Those that enforce absurd and oppressive gun laws with too much enthusiasm are usually not greeted with a smile though.
And its possible that a lot of people who are outraged by the overstepping of federal agents in recent years (sticking a machine gun in Elian Gonzales' face and killing an unarmed mother and baby at Ruby Ridge come to mind) are transferring that outrage to local constabularies.
I hear people say "I hate cops" from time to time. I want to ask them, "Do you hate them when you've been in a bad accident, or when your home has been burglarized?" "Maybe you shouldn't call them when you need help then!"
But I think the biggest problem is that police departments in general don't do as good a job as they might weeding out people who really shouldn't be policemen, and the general populace tend to assume that one encounter with a rude or aggressive cop means all cops are that way. My wife and I have each had an incident in the last few years involving a simple traffic citation and a cop with an obvious anger management problem. These are the kind of guys who should be weeded out as fast as possible. They make the jobs of other cops substantially harder than they need to be.
Cops are people, people have flaws. But cops are also, justifiably, held to a higher standard and when one falls down, people tend to generalize.
Something that would benefit police-public relations greatly, believe it or not, would be sales training for police. A good salesman can convince someone to do just about anything, and do it with a smile. It is actually possible to arrest someone and make them like you at the same time.
I ran a retail store in Oakland CA for a dozen years. You can imagine that in downtown Oakland, I knew a LOT of cops and called often. I used to joke that I'd sent more people to jail from that store than most full time policemen. Most of these guys (cops) had been on the job for years and being Oakland cops, had a lot of experience!
These guys could make a suspect laugh at the same time they were handcuffing him. They just knew how to deal with people. The closest I ever saw one of them come to drawing a weapon was one time when our "favorite" cop was removing an aggressive drunk from the store. He put his hand on the butt of his weapon and told the drunk, "if you breathe on me again, I'm going to have to shoot you". Everyone laughed, including the drunk, and the situation was totally defused. (I imagine he would have gotten in trouble with superiors for this if they had found out, but he just instinctively knew it was the right thing to do under the circumstances.)
One thing I observed in Oakland during the 1989 earthquake (I was right in the middle of it), I'll never forget and this left an indelible mark on all the cops we knew. By the time of the earthquake I knew the face of just about every ne're-do-well and petty thief who liked to hang around the downtown area. To the astonishment of everyone, when the shaking stopped, the looting did NOT start. (We had not so much as a pencil stolen and we were dealing with a lot of damage and some injuries, so it would have been easy.) The street-dwellers everyone thought would have taken advantage of the situation were instead helping to dig others out of the rubble... all over the city. I witnessed this directly and everyone else noticed it too. In some cases they were working shoulder to shoulder with cops who had previously arrested them. This phenomenon was talked about for days afterwards. The dregs of society had risen to the occasion to become the heroes of the day. The expected crime wave never happened and in fact crime dropped dramatically those first few days.
I don't ascribe to the "there's good in all of us" theory, but it's a lot closer to the truth than I would have thought prior to that earthquake. Cops have a very tough job dealing with the bottom of the societal barrel every day, and many become jaded pretty quickly. Remembering that all but the very worst of us has that potential hero inside of him could make the job a lot easier.

OK, I'll shut up now.

[pipeman45]

In my young and dumb days I came to know every policeman in a 50mile radius personally.(traffic tickets) Cops are people too. They have good days and bad. I've found that if you remain calm,and treat them with respect.That you will be treated the same. Their have been a couple of exceptions,and a phone call to their desk Sargent (I knew him better than they did) usually resulted in an apology from the offending party and a hand shake.

[John Sabato]

Jim, you are a cop??

I guess I will double your annual membership dues from $0 to $00 just as soon as John D. doubles my salary for being a moderator... My brother was a cop for aboout 8 years,...he gave it up (with enthusiastic encouragement from his wife) after he was compelled to shoot someone during the course of an apprehension of an armed suspect.... They just don't pay you guys enough Jim... I am glad you are part of this fraternity.

[shadow]

My dad was a Philadelphia police officer. After someone in his squad got hell for shooting someone he transferred to the fire department. He figured it was better to go into burning buildings than have some lawyer go after him if he shot a criminal.

Chris

[jamese]

John,
been on the job for 27 years here in South Florida, if I didn't have 2 young kids I would have retired, I'm going to stick it out for another 4 or 5 years unless that bird flu thing hits. Then who knows

My kid like most want to be a cop too!, but I think I'm going to steer him to being a fireman.

Its funny our office is next to the fire station and you see these big guys running up and down stairs carrying 50 lbs. hoses, pushing cars around the parking lot etc... but when the sh_t hits the fan they stage outside the area until we tell them its safe to come in and treat the wounded.

One of the few jobs I know where you get paid to sleep and work on your own car or boat.


Jim

[shadow]

Originally posted by jamese
but when the sh_t hits the fan they stage outside the area until we tell them its safe to come in and treat the wounded.

One of the few jobs I know where you get paid to sleep and work on your own car or boat.


Jim

Jim,

I hope you dont think that I was knocking the force (beacuse I was not). I just pointed out my dads personal experience. He knew a fellow officer who went through hell for shooting someone, so he left the force and became a fireman.

Are you talking about fireman or paramedics? I haven't seen many fires where the fireman wait outside waiting for the police to tell them it is OK to put it out.

Chris

[Edward Tinker]

Chris in many places I have been , the paramedics and the firemen come form the same place. So the firemen wait until they get an all clear. It works the other way around too, the firemen tell the police it is all clear (safe) for them to go in and investigate.


Ed

Retired 20 yr US Army Military Police ~~I've always felt that I am a cop too~ And Jim, I said the same thing, many, many times to myself. Because when you are sitting around somewhere on post (not in police gear) and folks would ask, oh, what MOS are you. I'd say 95B (its now called something else), they'd say, what's that? I'd say, "MP". There'd be a long pause and they'd say, oh, I guess thats ok....

[davidkachel]

If you ask me, the whole issue of cops having to feel like any segment of society doesn't like them is just plain dumb. Cops are just people doing a job. And if it weren't for them, we'd all be pulling guns out of our gun safes a lot more often and for reasons other than admiring them or punching holes in paper and furry critters.
Cops are generally courageous people doing a job the rest of us wouldn't have the stones for. My hat's off to 'em.
Unless you give me a ticket. Then you're a @%()^&@()$&. <grin>