Potential Fraud-Ideal Stock and Grips on Ebay

John Sabato · 02-28-2006, 08:45 AM

These items have just hit ebay, from Germany:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Luger-Ideal-stoc...QQcmdZViewItem

Photo from the ebay location:

but I caution all that the seller is brand new with no feedback. There is currently no photo shown of the grips. This could be perfectly legitimate, but it could also be a scam for such a high dollar item as an Ideal Stock. The photos shown may be from another website.

Caveat Emptor... Buyer beware... make sure of who you are dealing with and that they actually possess the items for sale. You can do this by insisting on additional photos from angles you request... if the seller can't comply, then they probably don't have the item.

Good Luck all!

LU1900 · 03-01-2006, 04:45 AM

.........

Pete Ebbink · 03-01-2006, 07:06 AM

Take a look at this one offered for sale by FGS here in the USA...it has the same wear patterns on parts of the leather...I suspect a big FRAUD being attemepted by this seller in DE...

http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/photo6.html

John Sabato · 03-01-2006, 08:07 AM

I sent a caution message to each of the potential bidders, and used the ebay message system to report the item number as a potential fraudulent transaction. Let's watch and see what they do.

Nice work Pete!

Pete Ebbink · 03-01-2006, 04:33 PM

Thanks John S.,

Those were my next steps...but it was too late last night...

I think the current high bidder is a Member on this Forum and on Jan's Gun Board...

John Sabato · 03-01-2006, 04:59 PM

I believe you are right Pete... I emailed nim via ebay... we will see what happens.

Pete Ebbink · 03-01-2006, 05:23 PM

Hi John S.,

Any chance of moving this topic to the open portion of the Forum, so non-Patron statused members might see what goes on out in the World...?

Since we no longer want this in the private section of the Forum for the early-buy benefit of Patrons only, it could serve the general members more if posted.

stefanosg · 03-01-2006, 07:36 PM

Thats a good catch guys. In addition to the wear patterns, look at the lighting. The bright spots appear in the same places and in the same "pattern". Too many coincidences.

John Sabato · 03-02-2006, 09:16 AM

Moved to this discussion area from the Lugerforum Patron side of the house for all to see how easy it is to get taken in an internet Fraud...

Edward Tinker · 03-02-2006, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LU1900
The answer from the seller after asking more pics for grips and stock :

""Dear member,
my neighbour made and provided the shown pictures as
I dont have a own camera, so I am not able to shoot new ones, sorry

Martin ""

Martin, you should ask, can't you get a picture of the grips?

I am sure if he tried hard enough...

Although a lot of sellers don't have cameras and 'borrow" pictures. If at least they are honest and say so, then doubt doesn't creep in... {and these sure are the same pictures of the same item..}

John Sabato · 03-02-2006, 09:35 AM

He sent the EXACT same message to everyone who inquired (including ME) right down to the mysterious double-quotes around his words...

He probably forgot which website he stole the original photos from so he can't produce a shot of the grips. Since the auction is still there, eBay hasn't taken any action yet...

I only received a single 'thank you" note from one of the bidders for my warning ... and you are quite welcome Paolo... we try to watch out for each other on this forum.

the gunman · 03-02-2006, 09:45 AM

Pete and John . Thank you

Edward Tinker · 03-02-2006, 10:17 AM

Did a search on his name; wirstmichvermissen

equals = will-me-miss

Fritzer · 03-02-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

wirstmichvermissen -
Will miss me.

MAYBE -But some here are better shots than most ...

Fritz.

olivier5848 · 03-02-2006, 02:52 PM

Hello to all
wirstmichvermissen, means approximatly: you will hate me.
I speek wery well german. Will contact this guys and ask he his location in germany, and say to him I will come and see the item before I bid. So I will see if he give me an adress??????
Best
Olivier

Edward Tinker · 03-02-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley
Will miss me.

tac

darn internet translator webpages

John Sabato · 03-02-2006, 03:10 PM

Great idea Oliver! Let us know what excuse he gives you...

olivier5848 · 03-02-2006, 04:30 PM

Any problem John, if I become an answer, I will inform the people on this forum.
Best
Olivier

George Anderson · 03-02-2006, 05:09 PM

I take it as " you will regret knowing me" or having known me. I think the fellows quite the charlatan with a twist of humor. Probably needs to be knee-capped.

hqbmw · 03-02-2006, 05:31 PM

How does one become a Patron? I had seen the auction in question and had also gone to FGS to compare the photos as I had already seen FGS's offer.

Now had I not been aware and had the Parons not imformed me, I could have made a large, avoidable mistake.

Jack

02-28-2006, 08:45 AM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Potential Fraud-Ideal Stock and Grips on Ebay These items have just hit ebay, from Germany: http://cgi.ebay.com/Luger-Ideal-stoc...QQcmdZViewItem Photo from the ebay location: but I caution all that the seller is brand new with no feedback. There is currently no photo shown of the grips. This could be perfectly legitimate, but it could also be a scam for such a high dollar item as an Ideal Stock. The photos shown may be from another website. Caveat Emptor... Buyer beware... make sure of who you are dealing with and that they actually possess the items for sale. You can do this by insisting on additional photos from angles you request... if the seller can't comply, then they probably don't have the item. Good Luck all! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-01-2006, 04:45 AM	#2
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 911 Thanks: 46 Thanked 471 Times in 198 Posts	......... __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

03-01-2006, 08:07 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I sent a caution message to each of the potential bidders, and used the ebay message system to report the item number as a potential fraudulent transaction. Let's watch and see what they do. Nice work Pete! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-01-2006, 04:59 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I believe you are right Pete... I emailed nim via ebay... we will see what happens. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-02-2006, 09:16 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Moved to this discussion area from the Lugerforum Patron side of the house for all to see how easy it is to get taken in an internet Fraud... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-01-2006, 07:06 AM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Take a look at this one offered for sale by FGS here in the USA...it has the same wear patterns on parts of the leather...I suspect a big FRAUD being attemepted by this seller in DE... http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/photo6.html

03-01-2006, 04:33 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks John S., Those were my next steps...but it was too late last night... I think the current high bidder is a Member on this Forum and on Jan's Gun Board...

03-01-2006, 05:23 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi John S., Any chance of moving this topic to the open portion of the Forum, so non-Patron statused members might see what goes on out in the World...? Since we no longer want this in the private section of the Forum for the early-buy benefit of Patrons only, it could serve the general members more if posted.

03-01-2006, 07:36 PM	#8
stefanosg User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 367 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 2 Posts	Thats a good catch guys. In addition to the wear patterns, look at the lighting. The bright spots appear in the same places and in the same "pattern". Too many coincidences.

03-02-2006, 09:35 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	He sent the EXACT same message to everyone who inquired (including ME) right down to the mysterious double-quotes around his words... He probably forgot which website he stole the original photos from so he can't produce a shot of the grips. Since the auction is still there, eBay hasn't taken any action yet... I only received a single 'thank you" note from one of the bidders for my warning ... and you are quite welcome Paolo... we try to watch out for each other on this forum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-02-2006, 09:45 AM	#12
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Pete and John . Thank you

03-02-2006, 10:17 AM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,960 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Did a search on his name; wirstmichvermissen equals = will-me-miss

03-02-2006, 02:52 PM	#15
olivier5848 User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: France Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello to all wirstmichvermissen, means approximatly: you will hate me. I speek wery well german. Will contact this guys and ask he his location in germany, and say to him I will come and see the item before I bid. So I will see if he give me an adress?????? Best Olivier

03-02-2006, 03:10 PM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Great idea Oliver! Let us know what excuse he gives you... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-02-2006, 04:30 PM	#18
olivier5848 User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: France Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Any problem John, if I become an answer, I will inform the people on this forum. Best Olivier

03-02-2006, 05:09 PM	#19
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	I take it as " you will regret knowing me" or having known me. I think the fellows quite the charlatan with a twist of humor. Probably needs to be knee-capped.

03-02-2006, 05:31 PM	#20
hqbmw User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mesa AZ Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How does one become a Patron? I had seen the auction in question and had also gone to FGS to compare the photos as I had already seen FGS's offer. Now had I not been aware and had the Parons not imformed me, I could have made a large, avoidable mistake. Jack __________________ Jack Hiles Mesa AZ