Erfurt 1917 Artillery Holster

Edward Tinker · 11-14-2005, 05:34 PM

Came across this today, comments...

Appears to be a original cleaning rod, where should I look for any markings?

The only damage I could find, appears to be more cosmetic, rather than a bad scrape.

a bit less glare, it is not as shiney as it appears in the first pictures.

SteveM · 11-14-2005, 06:29 PM

If it is marked, look on the end of the barrel and on the shaft.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-14-2005, 08:45 PM

Ed, I've been to your neighborhood, it's not safe there. You better send this to me for safekeeping....Nice Artillery! The rod looks authentic, the real ones have a slim wood barrel.
The steel stud in the top lid looks like the one's I used to install. Still has the stock block so now you have to start looking for a wood stock. Congratulations! I'm glad to see you are working on trading material for me...Jerry Burney

Edward Tinker · 11-14-2005, 08:52 PM

it cost more than I usually spend on "holsters", but I figured the holster was worth $350 or so, and the cleaning rod $100?

Ed

the gunman · 11-14-2005, 10:00 PM

Very Very Nice.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-14-2005, 10:03 PM

Ed, Yup! Worth every penny! Jerry

Navy · 11-15-2005, 06:53 AM

Hi Ed,

Great score.

If the rod is marked, it will normally be on the end of the barrel or on the steel shaft close to the barrel. When you fall out of love with that holster, I'll be glad to take it off your hands witha bit of profit for you.

Tom A

George Anderson · 11-15-2005, 07:20 AM

Good score Ed. I have only seen two marked artillery cleaning rods. Both were marked on the steel rod just below the wooden handle.

Ron Wood · 11-15-2005, 09:54 AM

Really nice holster Ed. I have been looking for one in that condition, so it is good to know that they are still out there and don't require a second mortgage on the house to buy them. Congratulations, you scored a home run on this one!

lugerholsterrepair · 11-15-2005, 11:12 PM

For those of you who are looking for a nice Artillery holster (Ron Wood) There are still bargains on eBay. Jerry Burney

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEDW%3AIT&rd=1

olivier5848 · 11-16-2005, 12:26 AM

Hello to all people.
Very nice arty holster Ed.
Best regards
Olivier

George Anderson · 11-16-2005, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lugerholsterrepair
For those of you who are looking for a nice Artillery holster (Ron Wood) There are still bargains on eBay. Jerry Burney

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEDW%3AIT&rd=1

Jerry, I have some reservations about this holster as well as the stock that was sold by the same seller. I have never seen an artillery holster that lacks the horizontal stitching on the back 1 1/4 inches below the "stock block". Although the stock iron is dead-on, the stock lacks a cartouche.

I may be totally wrong but those are my thoughts. Do we know the buyer?

Ron Wood · 11-16-2005, 12:32 PM

I wondered about that line of stitching also. Should it have one to be authentic?

George Anderson · 11-16-2005, 03:00 PM

Ron, I can not say that the lack of the stitching is an absolute but that the twenty holsters of mine I looked at indicated that one should expect it to be there. As to the stock, the only original German Imperial military stocks that I know to be original all have the cartouche. The two that I have that lack the cartouche came to me from a very questionable dealer and are in all liklihood counterfeits.

As a further note on the Imperial cartouche of the stocks, I have recently seen some that are almost certainly fake, so watch out.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-16-2005, 06:19 PM

George and I had a lengthy conversation about this rig...They both look authentic to me..I am certain they are both period.
The stock does not have the Crown S and the holster does not have the date, this could indicate a commercial or a Weimar production. There may be marks that were missed by the seller.
Like George I am a little less than enthusiastic, especially about the stock...The holster was a steal and had I had any brains It would be on it's way to my house...Sadly it is not.
In general any fake stocks I have observed did not have the wood to metal fit Imperial German stocks had and this is usually very obvious.
George and I both picked at this pretty good. There are some unusual things about it to be sure. I would like to see them up close to ease my mind about them....Jerry Burney

John D. · 11-16-2005, 07:50 PM

Very NICE!!!!

BTW, Ed?? You need a better camera... Looks like the picture was stretched way toooo long for fitting an HK...

JD

Edward Tinker · 11-16-2005, 09:24 PM

yeah, I know, but figure a shooter arty and this holster is about what a shooter HK "trades" for!

ed

var99 · 11-19-2005, 05:41 PM

Following up on on Ron and George's points re lack of stitching across the back of the holster, I have wondered about that as well, as I have a 1915 dated holster that seems genuine all respects, but lacks that stitching.

In researching this, it does appear there are quite a number of examples illustrated, (Bender page 230, Jan Still Imp. Lugers, page 111, and other books), and what they have in common is that they are all 1915 holsters, so it may be a characterstics of some early holsters?

Jerry B. , your thoughts?

Vince

lugerholsterrepair · 11-19-2005, 11:22 PM

Vince, I don't have enough 1915's here to say..George Anderson did a quick look over his 15 or so (Artillery) holsters and said they all have it including his very early Mars holsters. The holster on auction looked perfectly authentic to me from the photo's. It did not have this line of stitching and it put George off on it. I just happen to have an original 1915 in my shop for repairs and it has the stitching.
There were enough small Saddler contractors in Germany during the war I guess anything is possible.
WW1 short barrel holsters did not have this line of stitching. Jerry Burney

11-14-2005, 05:34 PM	#1
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Erfurt 1917 Artillery Holster Came across this today, comments... Appears to be a original cleaning rod, where should I look for any markings? The only damage I could find, appears to be more cosmetic, rather than a bad scrape. a bit less glare, it is not as shiney as it appears in the first pictures. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-14-2005, 08:45 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Ed, I've been to your neighborhood, it's not safe there. You better send this to me for safekeeping....Nice Artillery! The rod looks authentic, the real ones have a slim wood barrel. The steel stud in the top lid looks like the one's I used to install. Still has the stock block so now you have to start looking for a wood stock. Congratulations! I'm glad to see you are working on trading material for me...Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-14-2005, 08:52 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	it cost more than I usually spend on "holsters", but I figured the holster was worth $350 or so, and the cleaning rod $100? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-14-2005, 10:03 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Ed, Yup! Worth every penny! Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-15-2005, 09:54 AM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Really nice holster Ed. I have been looking for one in that condition, so it is good to know that they are still out there and don't require a second mortgage on the house to buy them. Congratulations, you scored a home run on this one! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-14-2005, 06:29 PM	#2
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	If it is marked, look on the end of the barrel and on the shaft.

11-14-2005, 10:00 PM	#5
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Very Very Nice.

11-15-2005, 06:53 AM	#7
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Ed, Great score. If the rod is marked, it will normally be on the end of the barrel or on the steel shaft close to the barrel. When you fall out of love with that holster, I'll be glad to take it off your hands witha bit of profit for you. Tom A

11-15-2005, 07:20 AM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Good score Ed. I have only seen two marked artillery cleaning rods. Both were marked on the steel rod just below the wooden handle.

11-15-2005, 11:12 PM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	For those of you who are looking for a nice Artillery holster (Ron Wood) There are still bargains on eBay. Jerry Burney http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEDW%3AIT&rd=1 __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-16-2005, 12:26 AM	#11
olivier5848 User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: France Posts: 61 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello to all people. Very nice arty holster Ed. Best regards Olivier

11-16-2005, 12:32 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	I wondered about that line of stitching also. Should it have one to be authentic? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-16-2005, 03:00 PM	#14
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Ron, I can not say that the lack of the stitching is an absolute but that the twenty holsters of mine I looked at indicated that one should expect it to be there. As to the stock, the only original German Imperial military stocks that I know to be original all have the cartouche. The two that I have that lack the cartouche came to me from a very questionable dealer and are in all liklihood counterfeits. As a further note on the Imperial cartouche of the stocks, I have recently seen some that are almost certainly fake, so watch out.

11-16-2005, 06:19 PM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	George and I had a lengthy conversation about this rig...They both look authentic to me..I am certain they are both period. The stock does not have the Crown S and the holster does not have the date, this could indicate a commercial or a Weimar production. There may be marks that were missed by the seller. Like George I am a little less than enthusiastic, especially about the stock...The holster was a steal and had I had any brains It would be on it's way to my house...Sadly it is not. In general any fake stocks I have observed did not have the wood to metal fit Imperial German stocks had and this is usually very obvious. George and I both picked at this pretty good. There are some unusual things about it to be sure. I would like to see them up close to ease my mind about them....Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-16-2005, 07:50 PM	#16
John D. Administrator & Site Owner LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Little NE of Somewhere... Posts: 2,651 Thanks: 471 Thanked 513 Times in 127 Posts	Very NICE!!!! BTW, Ed?? You need a better camera... Looks like the picture was stretched way toooo long for fitting an HK... JD

11-16-2005, 09:24 PM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	yeah, I know, but figure a shooter arty and this holster is about what a shooter HK "trades" for! ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-19-2005, 05:41 PM	#18
var99 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: FL Posts: 114 Thanks: 4 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Artillery Holster Stitching Following up on on Ron and George's points re lack of stitching across the back of the holster, I have wondered about that as well, as I have a 1915 dated holster that seems genuine all respects, but lacks that stitching. In researching this, it does appear there are quite a number of examples illustrated, (Bender page 230, Jan Still Imp. Lugers, page 111, and other books), and what they have in common is that they are all 1915 holsters, so it may be a characterstics of some early holsters? Jerry B. , your thoughts? Vince

11-19-2005, 11:22 PM	#19
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,863 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Vince, I don't have enough 1915's here to say..George Anderson did a quick look over his 15 or so (Artillery) holsters and said they all have it including his very early Mars holsters. The holster on auction looked perfectly authentic to me from the photo's. It did not have this line of stitching and it put George off on it. I just happen to have an original 1915 in my shop for repairs and it has the stitching. There were enough small Saddler contractors in Germany during the war I guess anything is possible. WW1 short barrel holsters did not have this line of stitching. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."