Greg Martin Preview...

Pete Ebbink · 09-06-2005, 07:02 PM

Lots of lugers...many appear redone...

Enter "luger" in the search option.

http://67.155.195.3:8050/FMPro?-db=G...rch.html&-view

SteveM · 09-06-2005, 08:05 PM

This one appears to be original; halo around "Germany". The "replacement grips" look to be a pretty good set of Ideal grips.

I wonder who looks at these and does the descriptions?

http://67.155.195.3:8050/FMPro?-db=G...ID=40235&-Find

Pete Ebbink · 09-06-2005, 08:26 PM

If any LF members are interested in a piece, I will be at their preview days and they normally let folks do a detailed take-down. Let me know what lugers you folks might be interested in bidding upon and I will make sure I take a good look...

Email me at pebbink@pacbell.net, if you wish...

Navy · 09-06-2005, 09:07 PM

Pete,

Take a look at that Navy for me , pls.

Tom A.

Pete Ebbink · 11-01-2005, 02:16 PM

The G-M preview auction is a little over 1 week away.

Tom A.,...I will look over the M1916 Navy for you and will send you an email aftewards...

Navy · 11-01-2005, 02:52 PM

Thanks pete.

Tom A

Pete Ebbink · 11-13-2005, 05:03 PM

Hi Tom,

Just got back from the G-M preview.

Lot # 858 M1914 Navy luger (dated 1916) is one of those bogus "Navy" lugers that seem to have come out in the 100's from our country's Heartland.

Small toggle pin flange, refinish, bluing a bit too blackish, no patina, no halos on barrel or frame stamping. Serial number 4029. Magazine stamps of the matched serial number looked too newly stamped in the wood, font of numbers was wrong, and the C/M stamping was too small in size. C/M stampings on the left side frame were "floating M's" as well.

The cased 1970's Mauser Navy looked nice but the barrel was a bit worn and not cleaned well. Not much wear on the gun's exterior.

c3006 · 11-13-2005, 05:13 PM

Pete
How much was the forger trying to add to the value of this pistol by doing this to it. Just wondering. clint

Pete Ebbink · 11-13-2005, 05:41 PM

Clint,

If you go to lots of gun shows, you will see the active buying of many 1920 commerical lugers...in any condition...by certain dealers or buyers for these dealers. These are the donor guns because nothing needs to be removed off the chamber and its resultant loss of metal at the top of the chamber. You will see these worn 1920's lugers being bought up for $ 600 or so...

I know of one fellow that buys them only for John Martz (2 at a time...) but they are the donor guns for the wonderful Martz creations...nice as you know they will never go into the bogus M1914 Navy creations.

Other buyers are picking them up for Waffenfabrik-USA...

Add a modern barrel ( which have the wrong rifle twist...), a modern or salvaged original Navy sight, some bogus Navy stamps and numbers, refinish the piece, add wear at the right spots, and you have a $ 3000-$ 4500 M1914 Navy luger. Then add a real Navy stock and holster and they can sell for well over $ 8,000.

c3006 · 11-13-2005, 06:48 PM

Is it agianst any kind of law to misrepresent a firearm like that or is that just a immoral cheesy way for a crook to make money?

drbuster · 11-13-2005, 07:11 PM

Clint, I believe it is BOTH! An unlucky buyer should get angry enough to bring charges.

Pete Ebbink · 11-13-2005, 11:04 PM

Steve M.,

I looked over the AE today at the SF preview day.

The AE with Ideal grips was indeed a nice honest piece...if I wanted an AE, I might be tempted to bid on this one.

The grips are not "repro"...but in a sense they are. The are not original DWM and are indeed after-market grips...

Dwight Gruber · 11-14-2005, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pete Ebbink
Steve M.,

...The AE with Ideal grips was indeed a nice honest piece...The grips are not "repro"...but in a sense they are. The are not original DWM and are indeed after-market grips...

...and can go for as much as $600 for the pair...

--Dwight

John Sabato · 11-14-2005, 01:38 PM

I believe that intentionally misrepresenting merchandisefor sale to be something that it actually is not is what is called FRAUD by the penal code in all 50 states. To do so across state lines, might also be consider a federal crime... if they use the post office in the sales mechanism or delivery and I believe the correct term is MAIL FRAUD, that is enforced by the post office.

09-06-2005, 07:02 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Greg Martin Preview... Lots of lugers...many appear redone... Enter "luger" in the search option. http://67.155.195.3:8050/FMPro?-db=G...rch.html&-view

11-13-2005, 05:13 PM	#8
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Pete How much was the forger trying to add to the value of this pistol by doing this to it. Just wondering. clint __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

11-13-2005, 06:48 PM	#10
c3006 User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 526 Thanks: 5 Thanked 12 Times in 5 Posts	Is it agianst any kind of law to misrepresent a firearm like that or is that just a immoral cheesy way for a crook to make money? __________________ Men Accustomed unto thier arms and their liberties will never endure the yoke. James Harrington 1776

11-14-2005, 01:38 PM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I believe that intentionally misrepresenting merchandisefor sale to be something that it actually is not is what is called FRAUD by the penal code in all 50 states. To do so across state lines, might also be consider a federal crime... if they use the post office in the sales mechanism or delivery and I believe the correct term is MAIL FRAUD, that is enforced by the post office. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-06-2005, 08:05 PM	#2
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	This one appears to be original; halo around "Germany". The "replacement grips" look to be a pretty good set of Ideal grips. I wonder who looks at these and does the descriptions? http://67.155.195.3:8050/FMPro?-db=G...ID=40235&-Find

09-06-2005, 08:26 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	If any LF members are interested in a piece, I will be at their preview days and they normally let folks do a detailed take-down. Let me know what lugers you folks might be interested in bidding upon and I will make sure I take a good look... Email me at pebbink@pacbell.net, if you wish...

09-06-2005, 09:07 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Pete, Take a look at that Navy for me , pls. Tom A.

11-01-2005, 02:16 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	The G-M preview auction is a little over 1 week away. Tom A.,...I will look over the M1916 Navy for you and will send you an email aftewards...

11-01-2005, 02:52 PM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Thanks pete. Tom A

11-13-2005, 05:03 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Tom, Just got back from the G-M preview. Lot # 858 M1914 Navy luger (dated 1916) is one of those bogus "Navy" lugers that seem to have come out in the 100's from our country's Heartland. Small toggle pin flange, refinish, bluing a bit too blackish, no patina, no halos on barrel or frame stamping. Serial number 4029. Magazine stamps of the matched serial number looked too newly stamped in the wood, font of numbers was wrong, and the C/M stamping was too small in size. C/M stampings on the left side frame were "floating M's" as well. The cased 1970's Mauser Navy looked nice but the barrel was a bit worn and not cleaned well. Not much wear on the gun's exterior.

11-13-2005, 05:41 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Clint, If you go to lots of gun shows, you will see the active buying of many 1920 commerical lugers...in any condition...by certain dealers or buyers for these dealers. These are the donor guns because nothing needs to be removed off the chamber and its resultant loss of metal at the top of the chamber. You will see these worn 1920's lugers being bought up for $ 600 or so... I know of one fellow that buys them only for John Martz (2 at a time...) but they are the donor guns for the wonderful Martz creations...nice as you know they will never go into the bogus M1914 Navy creations. Other buyers are picking them up for Waffenfabrik-USA... Add a modern barrel ( which have the wrong rifle twist...), a modern or salvaged original Navy sight, some bogus Navy stamps and numbers, refinish the piece, add wear at the right spots, and you have a $ 3000-$ 4500 M1914 Navy luger. Then add a real Navy stock and holster and they can sell for well over $ 8,000.

11-13-2005, 07:11 PM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Clint, I believe it is BOTH! An unlucky buyer should get angry enough to bring charges.

11-13-2005, 11:04 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Steve M., I looked over the AE today at the SF preview day. The AE with Ideal grips was indeed a nice honest piece...if I wanted an AE, I might be tempted to bid on this one. The grips are not "repro"...but in a sense they are. The are not original DWM and are indeed after-market grips...