Luger prices

[BILL]

Again I see 'parts' guns at collector prices at several auctions, classified gun lists, and several gun shows I have attended recently. Is it getting to the point where any 'shooter' Luger with a high percentage of matching parts (or interesting parts) becomes a gun with 'collectable grade' prices? Not that I really want a definition from anyone on what is or what isn't collectable(see previous threads), but is it to the point where a 90% original finish, unmatched is worth more than a 60% all original? I think that the fact that one can find a "rare Erfurt toggle assembly" w/original 95% bluing on eBay for $250 dollars (and someone actually pays that) gives credibility to stripping everything down and parting it out. But, financially, why would anyone pay over eight hundred dollars for a box of unmatched parts to assemble a shooter Luger? Maybe I am missing something (are there any 'shooter' Lugers out there anymore?..like, for around $500? That could be what I am seeing, not sure..a real shortage of lower priced, shooter grade Lugers). Maybe some knowledgeable enthusiast will give me a reality check here. What should the price be for a 'shooter' Luger? Garden variety, no match, no finish, no proofs, no grips etc?

[Kyrie]

Hi Bill,


What you are seeing is folks trying to get the best price they can for their pistols. Mismatched Lugers have no collector value, unless they are a relatively rare variation - in which case a collector may offer a small premium over shoot value to â??plug a holeâ?� in his collection until a better piece comes along. Generally speaking, Iâ??d not pay more than $400 for a standard military shooter Luger. Shooter Navies and Arties tend to go for more, but never more than half the value of a 99% collector grade pistol of the same variation.


It's always possible to pay more for a Luger than it is worth


Hope this helps!


Best regards,


Kyrie

[BILL]

I agree, and that is heartening to hear. Unfortunately, it is not what I am seeing. Look around and see how many folks are selling Lugers for $400 (of any variety). When they can get over $100 for a 'fair' magazine. $100 for a decent 4" barrel, $100 for genuine grips, $75 for a good sideplate, well over $200 for the toggle train, why would they sell the whole pistol for only $400? Am I imagining this or is anyone else noticing it?

[Marvin]

Bill,


In the NC, SC, Georgia area, I am seeing the dip blued, import marked, mis-matched Lugers with prices in the $800 range at gun shows. They are not selling, but folks stop to look and then see the price tag and gently lay it back down. I don't know if these dealers are actually selling at this price or not, but sure would not pay that price for the common types that are on the table. I can understand the prices of parts being higher; this is common for most parts, but $800 for these, no way, TODAY! In 3-4 years they will probably be going for this price, but the collectable Lugers should rise in price also.


My only thought about the high prices for the mis-matched pieces is that someone that wants a Luger may can pay $700-800 for one, but cannot pay the $1,000+ for the collectable Luger so they settle for the lower priced one. I have no problem with the mi-matched pieces, but I do at the prices some dealers charge. On the other hand, those that have a license must pay from the wholesale dealers the average of $500 for the pistol. They then add approx 25-30% and the selling price becomes $600-650.


If we understand Luger pricing as best we can, maybe we won't get "ripped" off. Just a few of my thoughts


Marvin

To whom it may concern, Today at a local St. Louis area gun show, I just sold two of my recent Russian imports, a 42byf & 19i6 DWM for $500 each. One of these was to another dealer for resale. Guess which one? Still a few of these left in my ad in the classified at this price. Also advertised a shooter Navy for less than half price of a collector grade.

[Kyrie]

Hi Bill,


No sir, youâ??re not imagining things. Iâ??m seeing the same thing, and itâ??s not limited to Lugers. There are a lot of Spanish pistols being â??parted out.â?� I suppose the owners are making money, but it just rubs my fur the wrong way :-(


Best regards,


Kyrie

That's a good post of your's Bill.


It's hard to say anymore what the value of a Luger is.

Some people will give you a way low price range for non-matching Lugers no matter what they look like.


I think the reality is that the base price for any shootable Luger is the range that Tom Heller sells them for. Namely, around $500. That gets you a Eastbloc arsenal refurbished Luger assembly.


Now I don't know about you guys, but a nice looking, non-matching, correctly finished (refinished or not) shooter grade Luger is worth a slight premium to at least some of the rebuilds. For one thing, you don't get all of those really cool big "X"'s that are often stamped on the Eastbloc pistols.


Then there is another way that I consider.


What does one of the Stainless "Lugers" cost? About $700?


Now if you are looking at a very nice example of a not 100% matching pistol, which is preferable? The real thing, though not in as issued condition? Or the Stainless thing?


Now I do have to agree that anything over the $599.99 price cap is too much to pay for a non-matching Luger, though I can understand where these high prices are coming from.


Really nice 95%+ all original, all matching Lugers are selling for double and triple the so-called shooter values.

It's only natural that the shooters will escalate in price.


So yes, you will see overpriced examples of shooter grade pistols. It is still possible to get pretty good pistols in the $500-$650 price range and some of them will be 100% original, though with less than 80% finish.


Which leads to the next problem. Is a 100% matching pistol that has been refinished by someone like Ted worth as much as $750 and maybe even a little more?


Mike

[Johnny Peppers]

I think we have all seen spikes in collector type gun prices, and even in guns that were not previously collector type. Two good examples are the Ruger single action pistols built before the safety features were introduced, and the Belgian made Browning A5 shotguns. When the changes were initiated on the Rugers, and Browning announced that manufacture of the A5 would move to Japan, we saw huge jumps in price of these guns. The jumps were way ahead of the actual value of the guns, and today you can buy most of the Rugers and Brownings cheaper than they were twenty years ago.

There has been a surge in demand and corresponding jump in prices of WWII used weapons, and the imported Lugers came along at a time when the demand to own a Luger by people that had never had an interest before was high. I have seen no corresponding spike in the higher grade Lugers, and just my opinion, but I feel that at some time in the future the recently imported Lugers will start making their way back into a non-receptive market. At that time the market will dictate the price rather than a WWII movie inspired demand.

[Matt]

Interest in World War II is stronger than ever. Some of the reasons for this are because vets are dying at the rate of more than 1000 per day and people are realizing that members of what Tom Brokaw called "The Greatest Generation" won't be around much longer.

Recent movies such as "Saving Private Ryan," "The Thin Red Line," "Enemy at the Gates" and "Pearl Harbor" also have helped increase the interest in WWII.

I believe these factors are driving up the prices of items associated with the War.

It remains to be seen whether the prices will continue to climb, but I believe they will.

Not too long ago, WWII GI field gear could be bought cheap in Army surplus stores. Check the prices these items are selling for now.

[BILL]

I am not sure about how much the Luger market is driven by WWII interest. I am sure that there is some correlation but one must also consider all of the pre-war Lugers that are also a part of the equation. My first thoughts were that the recent availability of the Eastern bloc Lugers has fanned the interest of the collectors but it isn't really the collectors who have been buying up the reworked Lugers. It seems to be the average public who want to have something they couldn't afford prior to the less expensive Lugers. As Johnny said, it might be a phenomenon that will come and go as the market 'level- loads' itself again. I think one thing is apparent, though, and that is anyone who has a "real German Luger" believes that it is rare, valuable and very much sought after by others. It is impossible to convince someone who bought four or five East German imports to resell, that they are shooters and should not be doubled in price from what they paid last year. I guess if the market is there then it's a fair price. Honestly, I don't see them selling for over $600 but with the interest on the rise it may not be long.

[Big Norm]

Yesterday, I saw on another site a 1917 artillery with 80% original blue and no straw w/o matching mag for $1800. Two months ago I bought a 1915 artillery w/ matching #'s. Good bore. Original matching stock and mag. 95% straw and blue for $1900. An honest gun. I can not believe that anyone would pay that much for the 1917. Anybody can ask anything they want. But they probably won't get it. Most of these dealers and others go home with their guns. Personally, I am keeping all of my 'spares'. Even the restored ones.


I sold a mis-matched 'G' date to a friend last fall for $500. He griped. But it was a beautiful gun. And I knew that I was giving him a good deal. But he did not know that. Only the toogle assy had a different number but it was a 'G' date toogle assy. I am waiting for him to gripe again and I will be a true buddy and give him his money back for the gun.

Big Norm

Sold 2 more reworks today in the $500 to $600 range, even over an 80% all matching DWM 1920 dated chamber with "S.P.Bn." Police grip stap markings and intact sear safely @$600. I agree with Johnny P. that whenever a model of firearm is changed (eg 1968 change to M70 Winchester) the price of the old model goes up with collectors (Gresham's Law). But I disagee with the price of Luger shooter going down in the forseeable future. As was stated, there will be a rash of follow up WW2 war flicks & TV series in the next couple of years and no foreseeable new supply of luger imports. So I hope that $750 reworked shooters don't blow the old timers minds. Prior to 1968, I can recall passing on PO8 & p38 as being too expensive @$50, which was about a week's take-home wages at the time. Today, I still spend a week's wages on a nice luger.

[Johnny Peppers]

Tom,

The changes to the Model 70 Winchester took place in 1964. Remember that Winchester had a complete overhaul of it's product line in 1964 and the collectors immediately wanted anything "pre 64", but the prices of the Model 70 did not spike up, but have been on a long and slow climb up. Along the way the collectors determined which models were truly rare, and which were more common. Since Winchester overhauled it's product line in 1964, the company has been in trouble ever since. But, to also see it from management's side, all the Winchester line of guns had seen a decline in sales. It was only after the "pre 64's" were discontinued that suddenly everyone wanted one. The Model 12 Winchester shotgun however did spike up in value, and except for the rare and high grade models are priced cheaper today than they were in the early 70's. Figure in inflation, and they are probably priced at half their 1970 value.

When I hear that the dipped Lugers and P38's are being put on the market at $650 to $750, I see no future in these pieces as collectibles, and we have not seen the true collectibles increase at anywhere near the rate of these recent imports. I recently had the opportunity to buy a strong 98% 1939 42 Code with matching magazine for $1250. I would have bought it but I have one just a fraction nicer. If this grade of Luger is still out there for $1250, the market is really skewed toward the recent imports. Maybe the 1939 42 Code was really a $2000 Luger and I have not yet realized it. I believe that the 1939 42 Code will be worth $1500 in a couple of years, but I just cannot visualize the recent imports approaching the $1000 mark in a stable market.

Norm, if your or your friend is interested, I do have several (16,41 &60) matching complete & minty large S over 42 toggle assemblies.

[Big Norm]

Thanks Tom! But I think that he just wanted a nice luger to go to the range with.

Big Norm