Mauser 42-1939 SN3891

Fredo · 01-09-2005, 03:38 PM

Hi everybody
Some years ago, I have purchased a P08-9mm as a shooter, but going trough the forum as a newbie with my new swiss luger 06-24, I was wondering what kind of model my German Luger is. I'think that it's a Mauser 42 made 1939. Unforunately not all parts are matching and it has been reblued.
Anyway' can somebody just confirm that my homework are correct?
thx to all oy you postiong me an answer
Fred

Fredo · 01-09-2005, 03:40 PM

I couldn't add mode pics in the first topic

Fredo · 01-09-2005, 03:42 PM

one more pic

Fredo · 01-09-2005, 03:42 PM

that's all
sorry

Ron Smith · 01-09-2005, 04:13 PM

Fredo,
What you have is a VOPO. An East German rework. They are usually made up from captured parts, and hot dip reblued. The main indicator are the "Target" plastic grips. They sell in the $400-$500 range, as shooters. The common belief is that they may eventually become collectable in their own right.

Ron

Fredo · 01-09-2005, 04:34 PM

Ron
does this means that the 42 mark on Breechlock group and the 1939 date on the frame are comming from different guns? or however it's a "vopo" the initial gun was a Mauser 42?

Navy · 01-09-2005, 07:42 PM

Fredo,

"42" was a code used by Mauser to identify pistols and piece parts they manufactured.

Tom A.

Ron Smith · 01-09-2005, 08:12 PM

Fredo,

VOPO, is the term used for an East German reworked Luger. What you have is a 1939 / 42, Mauser made Luger. It was made in 1939 by Mauser under contract to the German Army. The 42, as Tom pointed out, is the code assigned to Mauser from 1939 -1942. From 1936- 1939 the code was S/42. Approx. 85,000 Lugers were produced in 1939 ( Jan Still's Third Reich Lugers, pages 65 - 66.)

If all of the 2 digit numbers stamped on all of the parts. Match the last 2 digits of the 4 digit serial number. Then you have a matching gun. If not, then it's a mis-match.

However, the fact that it's a VOPO deminishes the value. The grips are East German replacements. The originals were checkered walnut .

Still , a nice pistol. One of the better ones I've seen.

Hope this answers your question. Ron

Fredo, I just noticed in the photo of the serial number, the partial stamp over lapping the O suffix. I thinks it's the top half of the East german Sunburst proof mark.

Vlim · 01-11-2005, 02:31 PM

Hi,

The barrel is a textbook example of a VoPo replacement. Note the rough texture of the barrel crown area. They're struck on the bottom with a single crown/N, no pistol serial number or diameter, etc... Depending on who imported them the caliber may be struck somewhere on the barrel.

These are very excellent shooters, especially the late Mausers like this one. Usually some small springs are a bit tired and may need replacement, but nothing big is usually wrong with them.

Beware of VoPo's with mismatched frame/receive combo's. P08's don't really like to have their major parts swapped, especially those from different makers. I must admit that althoug a bit ratty my WW1/WW2/VoPo frankenluger shoots quite well, but repeating is getting a bit dodgy. It's a combination of a DWM frame and toggle with a 1936 dated Mauser receiver and a VoPo barrel.

This is an image taken from a 1961 Eastern-German VoPo instruction book:

(Ron: I think the overstamp is an 'X' in a circle. Probably done to remove the serialnumber letter from the registered serialnumber).

Fredo · 01-11-2005, 02:51 PM

Thx for the very precise comments. I had a closer look at the barell and found then N+crown, but no caliber mark. Mine is wihout a doubt a 9 mm Para whcich shoots very well with Swiss9mm ordonance ammo.
One question, on the side of the frame in front of the trigger were is a strange mark...is that the VoPo sign?

Regards

Fredo · 01-11-2005, 02:53 PM

Side mark

Vlim · 01-11-2005, 03:07 PM

Hi,

That looks like a later import/proof mark that was struck out. Doesn't resemble a Western-German or Swiss one, though.

10e.licorne · 01-13-2005, 12:58 AM

hi
sometime you may found very nice vopo model all matching the only diffÃ?Â©rence is an "X" marck in front the serial number and the proof marck on the magazine are take out by grinding in bias
I'am sorry I can't give more photo of the marck I have sell this one a time ago
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08d.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08g.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08ensemble.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08dessus.jpg
sorry for my english I'm a french collector
jean marie

Vlim · 01-13-2005, 10:15 AM

Hi,

Yes, these most probably date from left-over Russian and Hungarian supplies that surfaced during the last decade. Most were sold off with cheap plastic grips (as the original grips had been discarded before storage).

A number of P08s, originating from these supplies were refurbished only a couple of years ago. These were refitted with surplus East-German barrels, reblued, fitted with Nill-Grips and sold through several large German gun shops.

The fact that they came directly out of storage and only needed minor repairs mean that these are usually in a much better (numbered) condition than most VoPo's.

An example of these reworked 'captures' is the 'Frankonia P08', still being offered for sale in Germany. They come boxed with a Mauser 06/73 manual.

This is an example of one:

Lugerdoc · 01-13-2005, 11:16 AM

Most of the DDR lugers that had worn bores, had the barrels replaced in 1953 when they were put away as surplus. Some of the new barrel will be marked with a month and year date (eg 953 for Sept 1953) below the DDR C/N. Long before these hit the commerical market, some of them showed up in VN, Chile, Lebanon, etc. being used by communist front organization. Of course the Russians had "plausable denignability" of these suplus German pistols. TH

01-09-2005, 03:38 PM	#1
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mauser 42-1939 SN3891 Hi everybody Some years ago, I have purchased a P08-9mm as a shooter, but going trough the forum as a newbie with my new swiss luger 06-24, I was wondering what kind of model my German Luger is. I'think that it's a Mauser 42 made 1939. Unforunately not all parts are matching and it has been reblued. Anyway' can somebody just confirm that my homework are correct? thx to all oy you postiong me an answer Fred Attached Thumbnails

01-09-2005, 03:40 PM	#2
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	some more pics I couldn't add mode pics in the first topic Attached Thumbnails

01-09-2005, 03:42 PM	#3
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Marks&Serial one more pic Attached Thumbnails

01-09-2005, 03:42 PM	#4
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the last one with marks that's all sorry Attached Thumbnails

01-09-2005, 04:13 PM	#5
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Fredo, What you have is a VOPO. An East German rework. They are usually made up from captured parts, and hot dip reblued. The main indicator are the "Target" plastic grips. They sell in the $400-$500 range, as shooters. The common belief is that they may eventually become collectable in their own right. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-09-2005, 04:34 PM	#6
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron does this means that the 42 mark on Breechlock group and the 1939 date on the frame are comming from different guns? or however it's a "vopo" the initial gun was a Mauser 42?

01-09-2005, 07:42 PM	#7
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Fredo, "42" was a code used by Mauser to identify pistols and piece parts they manufactured. Tom A.

01-09-2005, 08:12 PM	#8
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Fredo, VOPO, is the term used for an East German reworked Luger. What you have is a 1939 / 42, Mauser made Luger. It was made in 1939 by Mauser under contract to the German Army. The 42, as Tom pointed out, is the code assigned to Mauser from 1939 -1942. From 1936- 1939 the code was S/42. Approx. 85,000 Lugers were produced in 1939 ( Jan Still's Third Reich Lugers, pages 65 - 66.) If all of the 2 digit numbers stamped on all of the parts. Match the last 2 digits of the 4 digit serial number. Then you have a matching gun. If not, then it's a mis-match. However, the fact that it's a VOPO deminishes the value. The grips are East German replacements. The originals were checkered walnut . Still , a nice pistol. One of the better ones I've seen. Hope this answers your question. Ron Fredo, I just noticed in the photo of the serial number, the partial stamp over lapping the O suffix. I thinks it's the top half of the East german Sunburst proof mark. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-11-2005, 02:31 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,943 Times in 1,196 Posts	Hi, The barrel is a textbook example of a VoPo replacement. Note the rough texture of the barrel crown area. They're struck on the bottom with a single crown/N, no pistol serial number or diameter, etc... Depending on who imported them the caliber may be struck somewhere on the barrel. These are very excellent shooters, especially the late Mausers like this one. Usually some small springs are a bit tired and may need replacement, but nothing big is usually wrong with them. Beware of VoPo's with mismatched frame/receive combo's. P08's don't really like to have their major parts swapped, especially those from different makers. I must admit that althoug a bit ratty my WW1/WW2/VoPo frankenluger shoots quite well, but repeating is getting a bit dodgy. It's a combination of a DWM frame and toggle with a 1936 dated Mauser receiver and a VoPo barrel. This is an image taken from a 1961 Eastern-German VoPo instruction book: (Ron: I think the overstamp is an 'X' in a circle. Probably done to remove the serialnumber letter from the registered serialnumber).

01-11-2005, 02:51 PM	#10
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thx for the very precise comments. I had a closer look at the barell and found then N+crown, but no caliber mark. Mine is wihout a doubt a 9 mm Para whcich shoots very well with Swiss9mm ordonance ammo. One question, on the side of the frame in front of the trigger were is a strange mark...is that the VoPo sign? Regards Attached Thumbnails

01-11-2005, 02:53 PM	#11
Fredo User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lausanne/Switzerland Posts: 47 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Side mark Attached Thumbnails

01-11-2005, 03:07 PM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,943 Times in 1,196 Posts	Hi, That looks like a later import/proof mark that was struck out. Doesn't resemble a Western-German or Swiss one, though.

01-13-2005, 12:58 AM	#13
10e.licorne User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: near Perpignan in France Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	hi sometime you may found very nice vopo model all matching the only diffÃ?Â©rence is an "X" marck in front the serial number and the proof marck on the magazine are take out by grinding in bias I'am sorry I can't give more photo of the marck I have sell this one a time ago http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08d.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08g.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08ensemble.jpg http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/p08dessus.jpg sorry for my english I'm a french collector jean marie __________________ d'nt say i will do it .... do it

01-13-2005, 10:15 AM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,943 Times in 1,196 Posts	Hi, Yes, these most probably date from left-over Russian and Hungarian supplies that surfaced during the last decade. Most were sold off with cheap plastic grips (as the original grips had been discarded before storage). A number of P08s, originating from these supplies were refurbished only a couple of years ago. These were refitted with surplus East-German barrels, reblued, fitted with Nill-Grips and sold through several large German gun shops. The fact that they came directly out of storage and only needed minor repairs mean that these are usually in a much better (numbered) condition than most VoPo's. An example of these reworked 'captures' is the 'Frankonia P08', still being offered for sale in Germany. They come boxed with a Mauser 06/73 manual. This is an example of one:

01-13-2005, 11:16 AM	#15
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Most of the DDR lugers that had worn bores, had the barrels replaced in 1953 when they were put away as surplus. Some of the new barrel will be marked with a month and year date (eg 953 for Sept 1953) below the DDR C/N. Long before these hit the commerical market, some of them showed up in VN, Chile, Lebanon, etc. being used by communist front organization. Of course the Russians had "plausable denignability" of these suplus German pistols. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net