Luger mag capacity revisited <IMG SRC="/luger/graphics/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=":)">

Hugh · 06-11-2001, 12:44 PM

There was recently a lively discussion on the correct magazine capacity for the Luger. I just obtained a copy of the book GERMAN SMALL ARMS MARKINGS FROM AUTHENTIC SOURCES by Gortz & Bryans. In the "Special Contract Conditions with DWM, 1908", for the delivery of 5,000 P08; section 3 "Proof Testing & Firing", paragraph b2, it is stated: "another magazine-load of eight rounds shall be fired off-hand in rapid fire into the bullet backstop".

Under the section "Inspection and Acceptance of Pistols 08 and Parts Thereof (1913)", which is a translation of the instructions given to the Royal Prussian Erfurt Factory, is the following statement:

"D. Rapid Fire - Power Proof is followed by test firing the pistol for proper operation of the action by shooting two magazine loads (16 rapid-fire test cartridges). Both magazines are filled with eight rapid-fire test cartridges and placed to the left of the pistol with their slotted sides facing up."........

Annex H to the above instructions is titled "Breaking-in Firing of Pistols 08". Section A-6 states: "The magazine of each pistol will be loaded with eight cartridges by the corporal, assisted by workers and will be placed behind the pistol."

This should answer the question of the capacity of the Luger magazine, at least as far as the German Imperial Army was concerned.

Marvin · 06-11-2001, 01:09 PM

Hugh,

In addition to your information, I have several original WWII 9mmP boxes of ammo and there are 16 rounds in each box. This would indicate to me that the magazine should hold 1/2 box of ammo. Does this make sense that WWII era mags hold 8 rounds?

Marvin

Thor · 06-11-2001, 01:11 PM

Know I know why they went to aluminum bottoms, when you have to seat a mag with 8 rounds in it, you almost have to break the bottom piece with all the force required! Thorboy

Aaron · 06-11-2001, 02:09 PM

An excellent deduction, but come come military .45 ACP comes in 50 round boxes when 1911 pistols hold seven rounds, which allows seven full clip loads and one left over, and the 1917 revolver gets eight fill ups with two left over?

BILL · 06-11-2001, 02:10 PM

Hugh, good job. Clearly stated, the P.08 magazine should hold eight rounds. I know I have had mags that held only seven, which was due to the spring not being able to seat fully in the indentation of the clip bottom. Also there was the Powell cartridge counter (only counts to seven). There was speculation the 'eighth round' might have been the round in the chamber..but "eight round magazines" is clearly called out. Thanks.

Marvin · 06-11-2001, 02:26 PM

Aaron,

Good point with the .45 rounds coming in 50 round boxes, but the Germans were more methodical than Americans and provided the ammo so it was convienient to carry. The handgun was not the first line of defense and therefore soldiers would carry as much rifle ammo as possible. Even the K98k ammo pouches had room in each for (2) five round stripper clips. Since the Luger magazine held 8 rounds, they could have one box of ammo with 16 rounds. This would be for the primary magazine and the spare magazine. With a handgun, it was the last resort for defense.

The German soldier would carry more weight on his person than the Americans so weight was a definite consideration.

Marvin

G.T. · 06-11-2001, 04:53 PM

06-11-2001, 12:44 PM	#1
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Luger mag capacity revisited There was recently a lively discussion on the correct magazine capacity for the Luger. I just obtained a copy of the book GERMAN SMALL ARMS MARKINGS FROM AUTHENTIC SOURCES by Gortz & Bryans. In the "Special Contract Conditions with DWM, 1908", for the delivery of 5,000 P08; section 3 "Proof Testing & Firing", paragraph b2, it is stated: "another magazine-load of eight rounds shall be fired off-hand in rapid fire into the bullet backstop". Under the section "Inspection and Acceptance of Pistols 08 and Parts Thereof (1913)", which is a translation of the instructions given to the Royal Prussian Erfurt Factory, is the following statement: "D. Rapid Fire - Power Proof is followed by test firing the pistol for proper operation of the action by shooting two magazine loads (16 rapid-fire test cartridges). Both magazines are filled with eight rapid-fire test cartridges and placed to the left of the pistol with their slotted sides facing up."........ Annex H to the above instructions is titled "Breaking-in Firing of Pistols 08". Section A-6 states: "The magazine of each pistol will be loaded with eight cartridges by the corporal, assisted by workers and will be placed behind the pistol." This should answer the question of the capacity of the Luger magazine, at least as far as the German Imperial Army was concerned.

06-11-2001, 01:09 PM	#2
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Luger mag capacity revisited Hugh, In addition to your information, I have several original WWII 9mmP boxes of ammo and there are 16 rounds in each box. This would indicate to me that the magazine should hold 1/2 box of ammo. Does this make sense that WWII era mags hold 8 rounds? Marvin

06-11-2001, 01:11 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Luger mag capacity revisited Know I know why they went to aluminum bottoms, when you have to seat a mag with 8 rounds in it, you almost have to break the bottom piece with all the force required! Thorboy

06-11-2001, 02:09 PM	#4
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Luger mag capacity revisited An excellent deduction, but come come military .45 ACP comes in 50 round boxes when 1911 pistols hold seven rounds, which allows seven full clip loads and one left over, and the 1917 revolver gets eight fill ups with two left over?

06-11-2001, 02:10 PM	#5
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Luger mag capacity revisited Hugh, good job. Clearly stated, the P.08 magazine should hold eight rounds. I know I have had mags that held only seven, which was due to the spring not being able to seat fully in the indentation of the clip bottom. Also there was the Powell cartridge counter (only counts to seven). There was speculation the 'eighth round' might have been the round in the chamber..but "eight round magazines" is clearly called out. Thanks.

06-11-2001, 02:26 PM	#6
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Luger mag capacity revisited Aaron, Good point with the .45 rounds coming in 50 round boxes, but the Germans were more methodical than Americans and provided the ammo so it was convienient to carry. The handgun was not the first line of defense and therefore soldiers would carry as much rifle ammo as possible. Even the K98k ammo pouches had room in each for (2) five round stripper clips. Since the Luger magazine held 8 rounds, they could have one box of ammo with 16 rounds. This would be for the primary magazine and the spare magazine. With a handgun, it was the last resort for defense. The German soldier would carry more weight on his person than the Americans so weight was a definite consideration. Marvin

06-11-2001, 04:53 PM	#7
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,503 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,641 Times in 1,002 Posts	I think we just fight better then we count!