Navy markings ??

Ron Smith · 01-06-2005, 10:45 AM

I know very little about authenticity of Navy marks. Do these look correct?

Thanks, Ron

Navy · 01-06-2005, 01:43 PM

Ron,

I have never seen a serial number over stamp a proof mark on a Navy before. This is *most* unusual.

Tom A.

George Anderson · 01-06-2005, 02:22 PM

What might help or give a clue is to know what the current configuration of the pistol is. If it were, perhaps, a Weimar police the overstamp might make sense. Are there conflicting proofs on the right side of the pistol?

John Sabato · 01-06-2005, 02:25 PM

Ron could you please attempt better closeups of all numbers on this gun... I have attempted to improve the photo you posted but not much success due ot a lack of focus...

In addition to the fact that Tom Armstrong feels that this anomoly is most unusual...The numbers shown appear to be different sizes and I would like to see how they compare with the rest of the numbers on the gun.

thanks...

Navy · 01-06-2005, 02:50 PM

John,
Your enlargement suggests there were numbers on the frame rail beneath the present stampings. This gun is *very* troubling.

Tom A.

John Sabato · 01-06-2005, 03:16 PM

Another thing that just occured to me after staring at this photo is that the upper receiver extends past the front of the lower frame... this implies one of two things... and both are bad in my opinion...

ONE is internal damage at the front lug/takedown lever OR mismatched parts...

and TWO is even worse to think about... that the front of the frame may have been shortened by grinding and re-numbered... Geez I hope not Ron!

More photos please!

luger11 · 01-06-2005, 05:05 PM

Boys..........somtimes the obvious is overlooked....the serial number is supposed to be on the frame rail and not where it is.
Leo

luger11 · 01-06-2005, 05:10 PM

OOOOPs.........put my foot in my mouth..had a 1914 in hand ,meant to state date. and not serial number............had a tough day

Ron Smith · 01-06-2005, 06:02 PM

Sorry did'nt mean to fluster anyone.

It's a reworked pistol. Mismatched upper and lower. With 4" barrel. I was just curious to know if the Navy marks are genuine. There are some oddities about it that intrigue me. If the Navy markings are real. Then I may pursue it.

Hi John, This is a sellers photo, that was sent to me. I don't have the pistol.

Thanks,Ron

Pete Ebbink · 01-06-2005, 06:54 PM

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976540857.htm

I had previously asked about this same piece back in 9-04 (thread titled "History Piece") in our HK luger section when it was on auction on Gun Broker...

No LF members had any opinons, then...

Looks like the top of the gun and the bottom of the gun where from different numbered guns...maybe that is why the "1917" on the left frame rail (as Leo mentioned) is not there...

Do not know why HK proofs would be there...???

Regards,

Pete...

01-06-2005, 10:45 AM	#1
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Navy markings ?? I know very little about authenticity of Navy marks. Do these look correct? Thanks, Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-06-2005, 02:25 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Addtional photos please... Ron could you please attempt better closeups of all numbers on this gun... I have attempted to improve the photo you posted but not much success due ot a lack of focus... In addition to the fact that Tom Armstrong feels that this anomoly is most unusual...The numbers shown appear to be different sizes and I would like to see how they compare with the rest of the numbers on the gun. thanks... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-06-2005, 03:16 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Another thing that just occured to me after staring at this photo is that the upper receiver extends past the front of the lower frame... this implies one of two things... and both are bad in my opinion... ONE is internal damage at the front lug/takedown lever OR mismatched parts... and TWO is even worse to think about... that the front of the frame may have been shortened by grinding and re-numbered... Geez I hope not Ron! More photos please! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-06-2005, 06:02 PM	#9
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Sorry did'nt mean to fluster anyone. It's a reworked pistol. Mismatched upper and lower. With 4" barrel. I was just curious to know if the Navy marks are genuine. There are some oddities about it that intrigue me. If the Navy markings are real. Then I may pursue it. Hi John, This is a sellers photo, that was sent to me. I don't have the pistol. Thanks,Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-06-2005, 01:43 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Ron, I have never seen a serial number over stamp a proof mark on a Navy before. This is most unusual. Tom A.

01-06-2005, 02:22 PM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	What might help or give a clue is to know what the current configuration of the pistol is. If it were, perhaps, a Weimar police the overstamp might make sense. Are there conflicting proofs on the right side of the pistol?

01-06-2005, 02:50 PM	#5
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	John, Your enlargement suggests there were numbers on the frame rail beneath the present stampings. This gun is very troubling. Tom A.

01-06-2005, 05:05 PM	#7
luger11 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 149 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Boys..........somtimes the obvious is overlooked....the serial number is supposed to be on the frame rail and not where it is. Leo

01-06-2005, 05:10 PM	#8
luger11 User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 149 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OOOOPs.........put my foot in my mouth..had a 1914 in hand ,meant to state date. and not serial number............had a tough day

01-06-2005, 06:54 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976540857.htm I had previously asked about this same piece back in 9-04 (thread titled "History Piece") in our HK luger section when it was on auction on Gun Broker... No LF members had any opinons, then... Looks like the top of the gun and the bottom of the gun where from different numbered guns...maybe that is why the "1917" on the left frame rail (as Leo mentioned) is not there... Do not know why HK proofs would be there...??? Regards, Pete...