2 Date WW1 Erfurt Luger Help

BlackBart · 02-29-2016, 06:30 PM

OK, just bought this and no doubt grossly overpaid ($1100.00) BUT I wanted one and they are getting harder to find at shows and auctions.

Has some extraction problems, spent casing goes square against next round in chamber. Conical Winchester factory ammo, will soon try others. I'm thinking maybe stretch the extractor spring a fraction? On the plus side the pin hits the primer with authority.
2 aftermarket magazines, and one grip is non matching.... everything else seems to be # original. Bore is fair, bluing speaks for itself and I know it's OFTEN asked but dumb it down for me.... why the 1916/1920???
Thanks in advance!

Edward Tinker · 02-29-2016, 06:39 PM

you're right, the question is asked a lot on the 1916 / 1920 - the answer is in the FAQ - I can write more later if you can't find it

Welcome to the forum

BlackBart · 02-29-2016, 07:06 PM

Tried............ getting gibberish (to me) about subscriptions?

alanint · 02-29-2016, 07:19 PM

Welcome to the forum. Your takedown lever is an East German replacement and not original to the pistol. There may be issues with the magazines or magazine catch, as it sounds from what you described as the magazines sitting a hair too low in the frame. I would order an entire spring set for your pistol and try again.

BlackBart · 02-29-2016, 07:28 PM

Gotcha and I do appreciate the help! The 2 sets of numbers in question does NOT mean this was used for police use? Could it have been used in WW2 since it has some comblock after market parts?

abukafura · 02-29-2016, 08:20 PM

The 1916 date is the military date the Luger was accepted into service. 1920 is simply an acknowledgement that this weapon belonged to the government on that date, after the war when many guns were kept by private individuals. I hope George will provide a better answer on this question

Edward Tinker · 02-29-2016, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBart

Tried............ getting gibberish (to me) about subscriptions?

what?
top line
USER CP - ALL ALBUMS FAQ

http://forum.lugerforum.com/faq.php

>>>>>>>>> http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

Don M · 03-01-2016, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBart

The 2 sets of numbers in question does NOT mean this was used for police use? Could it have been used in WW2 since it has some comblock after market parts?

Odds are that it was reissued to the police shortly after WWI. If so, it probably was issued to one of the barracked Bereitschaftspolizei units, did not receive a sear or mag safety and was transferred to the military in 1935-36. Pure speculation, however.

rhuff · 03-01-2016, 03:52 PM

Trying to stretch the extractor spring MAY help for a very short time, but will not be lasting. The extractor spring is quite small, but very important for normal functioning. It should be replaced, and while there, clean out the extractor channel(they get pretty nasty) and check the "business" end of the extractor to be sure that one "ear" has not broken off(very common).

BlackBart · 03-19-2016, 01:59 AM

Best place to order a quality extractor spring? Doubtful I want a used or knockoff .......... can OEM types still be had?
Thanks all for your help!

mrerick · 03-19-2016, 05:47 AM

Hi, and welcome to tjhe forum.

From your pictures, it looks like the receiver may not be going completely into battery.

The small gap shown at your toggle train's breech face is not normal.

This could relate to the fitting of a replacement takedown lever. When in battery, the receiver looks like it may be proud to the frame...

If you're not experienced with these mechanisms, consider getting it to a good Luger experienced gunsmith that can check and fit it properly.

You paid about the going price for a good properly functioning shooter Luger.

(on background, I've never seen one of our members here respond to an inquiry with gibberish... There are some questions that regularly come up, and that's why we've assembled responses into our FAQ - so that we don't have to keep repeating explanations...)

Marc

Lugerdoc · 03-19-2016, 09:15 AM

I agree that the barrelled receiver is going too far forward for the breech block with extractor to seat properly. I do have new repro locking bolts in stock @$50 as well as new or used original extractor springs in stock. TH

DonVoigt · 03-19-2016, 10:34 AM

While you are working on the piece, you may want to consider replacing all the coil springs.
Wolf Gun Springs sells a "kit" with extractor, main, and striker springs. Check for them on line or
get the equivalent from Lugerdoc.

Looks like your TD lever is an East German unit- may explain the problem- it that is it.

BlackBart · 03-22-2016, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

Hi, and welcome to tjhe forum.

From your pictures, it looks like the receiver may not be going completely into battery.

The small gap shown at your toggle train's breech face is not normal.

This could relate to the fitting of a replacement takedown lever. When in battery, the receiver looks like it may be proud to the frame...

If you're not experienced with these mechanisms, consider getting it to a good Luger experienced gunsmith that can check and fit it properly.

You paid about the going price for a good properly functioning shooter Luger.

(on background, I've never seen one of our members here respond to an inquiry with gibberish... There are some questions that regularly come up, and that's why we've assembled responses into our FAQ - so that we don't have to keep repeating explanations...)

Marc

No, didn't mean to sound like member was responding in gibberish........ the link result that came back to me was gibberish! My fault no doubt not knowing the software. Cut me some slack, I'm older than most and gave up after DOS.

BlackBart · 03-22-2016, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

While you are working on the piece, you may want to consider replacing all the coil springs.
Wolf Gun Springs sells a "kit" with extractor, main, and striker springs. Check for them on line or
get the equivalent from Lugerdoc.

Looks like your TD lever is an East German unit- may explain the problem- it that is it.

The East German levers are typically bad or not very well fitting? Can I conceivably file mine into workable order before I buy one here from someone that offered to sell me one? Is this the same part as some call "locking bolt"? My 7th pic down under the SN.

DonVoigt · 03-22-2016, 03:53 PM

No, with regard to EG levers.
Yes, TD lever = locking bolt.
Looks like your problem can't be solved by a file, the receiver is too far forward already.
A new lever may not fix it either, the lug on the bottom of the receiver may have been filed on-
though I have no idea why! Or the front of the frame could have been shortened, but does not look like it.

You really need another to compare it with, IMO.

BlackBart · 03-22-2016, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

No, with regard to EG levers.
Yes, TD lever = locking bolt.
Looks like your problem can't be solved by a file, the receiver is too far forward already.
A new lever may not fix it either, the lug on the bottom of the receiver may have been filed on-
though I have no idea why! Or the front of the frame could have been shortened, but does not look like it.

You really need another to compare it with, IMO.

Good info, it DOES fire and cycle "half" the time as advertised. That's what makes me think it's a ejector spring problem. >maybe< Compared to most other guns I own or have shot... very light trigger pull, this I like.

DonVoigt · 03-22-2016, 07:46 PM

Springs are cheap, won't hurt to change one or all.

ithacaartist · 03-23-2016, 12:34 AM

The very first thing that I'd attend to would be getting ithat upper into proper position when it's in battery. Starting out from the right place is a good thing, and may improve ejection. Since Lugers are machines with inter-relating balances--ammo, recoil spring, mag spring, and all the different weights of the components that go whanging around when it's fired-- I would not dismiss the possibility out-of-hand. If your lug is deficient, a weld to replace the errant material would be a simple matter. It might not hurt to remove the locking bolt for examination/comparison with a standard one.

DavidJayUden · 03-23-2016, 04:37 AM

Seems more likely that a mashed or out of spec. locking lever is more likely the culprit than worn lugs. You just need to land a spec. Erfurt or DWM lever for comparison. If that fails you may be able to send it to the Lugerdoc and let him swap some parts.
dju

02-29-2016, 06:30 PM	#1
BlackBart User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Bald Hills area Pa. Posts: 10 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	2 Date WW1 Erfurt Luger Help OK, just bought this and no doubt grossly overpaid ($1100.00) BUT I wanted one and they are getting harder to find at shows and auctions. Has some extraction problems, spent casing goes square against next round in chamber. Conical Winchester factory ammo, will soon try others. I'm thinking maybe stretch the extractor spring a fraction? On the plus side the pin hits the primer with authority. 2 aftermarket magazines, and one grip is non matching.... everything else seems to be # original. Bore is fair, bluing speaks for itself and I know it's OFTEN asked but dumb it down for me.... why the 1916/1920??? Thanks in advance! Attached Thumbnails

03-19-2016, 05:47 AM	#11
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi, and welcome to tjhe forum. From your pictures, it looks like the receiver may not be going completely into battery. The small gap shown at your toggle train's breech face is not normal. This could relate to the fitting of a replacement takedown lever. When in battery, the receiver looks like it may be proud to the frame... If you're not experienced with these mechanisms, consider getting it to a good Luger experienced gunsmith that can check and fit it properly. You paid about the going price for a good properly functioning shooter Luger. (on background, I've never seen one of our members here respond to an inquiry with gibberish... There are some questions that regularly come up, and that's why we've assembled responses into our FAQ - so that we don't have to keep repeating explanations...) Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

03-19-2016, 09:15 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I agree that the barrelled receiver is going too far forward for the breech block with extractor to seat properly. I do have new repro locking bolts in stock @$50 as well as new or used original extractor springs in stock. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-19-2016, 10:34 AM	#13
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	While you are working on the piece, you may want to consider replacing all the coil springs. Wolf Gun Springs sells a "kit" with extractor, main, and striker springs. Check for them on line or get the equivalent from Lugerdoc. Looks like your TD lever is an East German unit- may explain the problem- it that is it. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-22-2016, 03:53 PM	#16
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	No, with regard to EG levers. Yes, TD lever = locking bolt. Looks like your problem can't be solved by a file, the receiver is too far forward already. A new lever may not fix it either, the lug on the bottom of the receiver may have been filed on- though I have no idea why! Or the front of the frame could have been shortened, but does not look like it. You really need another to compare it with, IMO. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

02-29-2016, 06:39 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	you're right, the question is asked a lot on the 1916 / 1920 - the answer is in the FAQ - I can write more later if you can't find it Welcome to the forum

02-29-2016, 07:06 PM	#3
BlackBart User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Bald Hills area Pa. Posts: 10 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tried............ getting gibberish (to me) about subscriptions?

02-29-2016, 07:19 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Welcome to the forum. Your takedown lever is an East German replacement and not original to the pistol. There may be issues with the magazines or magazine catch, as it sounds from what you described as the magazines sitting a hair too low in the frame. I would order an entire spring set for your pistol and try again.

02-29-2016, 07:28 PM	#5
BlackBart User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Bald Hills area Pa. Posts: 10 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gotcha and I do appreciate the help! The 2 sets of numbers in question does NOT mean this was used for police use? Could it have been used in WW2 since it has some comblock after market parts?

02-29-2016, 08:20 PM	#6
abukafura Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Northeast Wisconsin, near Greeen Bay Posts: 327 Thanks: 1,314 Thanked 89 Times in 57 Posts	The 1916 date is the military date the Luger was accepted into service. 1920 is simply an acknowledgement that this weapon belonged to the government on that date, after the war when many guns were kept by private individuals. I hope George will provide a better answer on this question

03-01-2016, 03:52 PM	#9
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,272 Thanks: 2,692 Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts	Trying to stretch the extractor spring MAY help for a very short time, but will not be lasting. The extractor spring is quite small, but very important for normal functioning. It should be replaced, and while there, clean out the extractor channel(they get pretty nasty) and check the "business" end of the extractor to be sure that one "ear" has not broken off(very common).

03-19-2016, 01:59 AM	#10
BlackBart User Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Bald Hills area Pa. Posts: 10 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Best place to order a quality extractor spring? Doubtful I want a used or knockoff .......... can OEM types still be had? Thanks all for your help!

03-22-2016, 07:46 PM	#18
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	Springs are cheap, won't hurt to change one or all. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-23-2016, 12:34 AM	#19
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,285 Thanks: 7,021 Thanked 2,479 Times in 1,321 Posts	The very first thing that I'd attend to would be getting ithat upper into proper position when it's in battery. Starting out from the right place is a good thing, and may improve ejection. Since Lugers are machines with inter-relating balances--ammo, recoil spring, mag spring, and all the different weights of the components that go whanging around when it's fired-- I would not dismiss the possibility out-of-hand. If your lug is deficient, a weld to replace the errant material would be a simple matter. It might not hurt to remove the locking bolt for examination/comparison with a standard one. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

03-23-2016, 04:37 AM	#20
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Seems more likely that a mashed or out of spec. locking lever is more likely the culprit than worn lugs. You just need to land a spec. Erfurt or DWM lever for comparison. If that fails you may be able to send it to the Lugerdoc and let him swap some parts. dju