Excellent 1917 Artillery (except)....

Jack Lawman · 06-11-2008, 10:29 AM

With a thank you to Ron Wood for making this aquisition possible, here are pics of an excellent 1917 Artillery... but for the ground stock lug.

If it had a stock lug, it wouldn't be mine.

The sideplate seems very discolored compared to the rest of the gun.

It has what appears to be a WWII Mag, but the mag body is not marked at all... it may be a replacement body with original base.

Thanks Ron,
Jack

alanint · 06-11-2008, 10:52 AM

Is there a prohibition on stock lugged pistols in New York?

Jack Lawman · 06-11-2008, 11:13 AM

No prohibition.

Will never know for sure, but I have to assume it was removed at some point because the lug was perceived as illegal some time after the 1934 act (although it was always legal). When I got it, it was caked in seriously dried up cosmoline.

Jack

Ron Wood · 06-11-2008, 02:31 PM

I was happy to be involved with Jack's acquisition of this Arty. Through his generosity it also made it possible for me to obtain an accessory that I never thought I would own. I am out of town right now but when I get back home next week I will post this very special item.
The gun is quite nice. It is unfortunate that the stock lug has been ground but the condition of the rest of the piece makes restoration a reasonable consideration.
My thanks right back to you Jack.

alanint · 06-11-2008, 04:19 PM

I know that ATF decreed that ALL stocked pistols be registered as a short barrel rifle using a strict interpretation of the NFA 1934 provisions at the time of the big 1968 national registry.
At that time, people with stocks and guns were required to grind off the stock lug on the pistol, the stock or on some occasions, both. This is why stocks turn up with growned attaching iron and why pistols have the lug growned as well.
This was subsequently reversed for certain historical or antique firearms.
I asked about a NY law because of your statement that if the lug was not missing, it would not be yours. I assumed it was because of your place of residence

Ron Wood · 06-11-2008, 04:37 PM

Doug,
Your account of the 1968 registry does reflect the thinking of some people at the time which resulted in the unfortunate mutilation of these weapons. Actually there never was a requirement to grind anything, it just was prohibited to attach a shoulder stock to a handgun. If you didn't have a stock the pistol was perfectly legal, and vice versa...if you didn't have a pistol the stock was legal. Some folks in possession of both just removed the stock iron (and fortunately some of these irons were stashed away and reattached when the rules changed).
I think that Jack meant that if it still had the stock lug, it would have been too expensive to purchase and/or someone would have already snapped it up.

Jack Lawman · 06-11-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ron Wood
I think that Jack meant that if it still had the stock lug, it would have been too expensive to purchase and/or someone would have already snapped it up.

That's what I meant.

Jack

alanint · 06-11-2008, 10:57 PM

Jack, You are in my boat!
Anybody have an inexpensive growned Artillery they can let me have?
8^)

John Sabato · 06-12-2008, 10:00 AM

Since the grip frame has been mmutilated by the grinding of the stock lug, I think this gun would be a candidate for a stock lug transplant if you can find a damaged donor frame... it might be a little expensive, but to restore functionality would be worth it in my opinion.

06-11-2008, 10:29 AM	#1
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	Excellent 1917 Artillery (except).... With a thank you to Ron Wood for making this aquisition possible, here are pics of an excellent 1917 Artillery... but for the ground stock lug. If it had a stock lug, it wouldn't be mine. The sideplate seems very discolored compared to the rest of the gun. It has what appears to be a WWII Mag, but the mag body is not marked at all... it may be a replacement body with original base. Thanks Ron, Jack __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

06-11-2008, 11:13 AM	#3
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	Not illegal No prohibition. Will never know for sure, but I have to assume it was removed at some point because the lug was perceived as illegal some time after the 1934 act (although it was always legal). When I got it, it was caked in seriously dried up cosmoline. Jack __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

06-11-2008, 02:31 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,992 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,101 Times in 1,678 Posts	I was happy to be involved with Jack's acquisition of this Arty. Through his generosity it also made it possible for me to obtain an accessory that I never thought I would own. I am out of town right now but when I get back home next week I will post this very special item. The gun is quite nice. It is unfortunate that the stock lug has been ground but the condition of the rest of the piece makes restoration a reasonable consideration. My thanks right back to you Jack. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-11-2008, 04:37 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,992 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,101 Times in 1,678 Posts	Doug, Your account of the 1968 registry does reflect the thinking of some people at the time which resulted in the unfortunate mutilation of these weapons. Actually there never was a requirement to grind anything, it just was prohibited to attach a shoulder stock to a handgun. If you didn't have a stock the pistol was perfectly legal, and vice versa...if you didn't have a pistol the stock was legal. Some folks in possession of both just removed the stock iron (and fortunately some of these irons were stashed away and reattached when the rules changed). I think that Jack meant that if it still had the stock lug, it would have been too expensive to purchase and/or someone would have already snapped it up. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-12-2008, 10:00 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Since the grip frame has been mmutilated by the grinding of the stock lug, I think this gun would be a candidate for a stock lug transplant if you can find a damaged donor frame... it might be a little expensive, but to restore functionality would be worth it in my opinion. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-11-2008, 10:52 AM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Is there a prohibition on stock lugged pistols in New York?

06-11-2008, 04:19 PM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I know that ATF decreed that ALL stocked pistols be registered as a short barrel rifle using a strict interpretation of the NFA 1934 provisions at the time of the big 1968 national registry. At that time, people with stocks and guns were required to grind off the stock lug on the pistol, the stock or on some occasions, both. This is why stocks turn up with growned attaching iron and why pistols have the lug growned as well. This was subsequently reversed for certain historical or antique firearms. I asked about a NY law because of your statement that if the lug was not missing, it would not be yours. I assumed it was because of your place of residence

06-11-2008, 10:57 PM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Jack, You are in my boat! Anybody have an inexpensive growned Artillery they can let me have? 8^)