How to ream a #2 Morse taper

[Olle]

The #2 Morse taper in the tailstock on my lathe has seen better days, so I'm planning to refresh it. I was thinking about simply putting a reamer in the chuck, move the tailstock up against it and slowly feeding the spindle, this should not only make things easy to hold, it should hopefully make for perfect alignment between the chuck and the tailstock as well.

I have never tried this before and I'd hate to ruin the tailstock spindle (and maybe the reamer as well), so does anybody have any recommendations on RPMs, lubrication or any other important things to think about?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

The #2 Morse taper in the tailstock on my lathe has seen better days, so I'm planning to refresh it. I was thinking about simply putting a reamer in the chuck, move the tailstock up against it and slowly feeding the spindle, this should not only make things easy to hold, it should hopefully make for perfect alignment between the chuck and the tailstock as well.

I have never tried this before and I'd hate to ruin the tailstock spindle (and maybe the reamer as well), so does anybody have any recommendations on RPMs, lubrication or any other important things to think about?

Yes...Take plenty of pictures so the rest of us also get a learning experience...

Hmmmmm...Same recommendations as to reaming barrels, I guess...Lowest speed; feed 1/32" at a time, back out & blow out chips & re-oil; high-sulphur content cutting oil [Ridgid pipe cutting oil is good; they used to have a special extra-high sulphur content cutting oil for a better surface finish]...

And make sure it's not hardened...Center it as best you can so you don't open it up to a #3 size...Maybe coat the ID of the hole with machinists blue so you can see that it's cutting 360º and not just on one side...

It sounds like a good idea; you've got me interested in 'machine centering' my tailstock as well...maybe taper pin its' base in place first so I can always return to center...

<Runs off to Travers catalog to see how much a #2 Morse taper reamer costs>

Edit: The more I think of it, the more I'm disgusted that I haven't thought of this once in the last 43 years [my first real job was as a production machinist back in 1969 - I was 19]...A straight shank #2 Morse taper reamer is only ~$45 from Travers...

I Thank You for bringing this up!!!

I now plan on stripping my tailstock down, file off any burrs, adjust my inserts, taper pin the base in place as a 'zero', and ream the center...Maybe even clean it...

Edit: Just checking my tailstock 'barrel', you/I may need to make sure the reamer doesn't 'bottom out' on the tailstock screw...Might need to use an abrasive cutoff wheel/hand grinder to remove an eighth of an inch off the reamer end...

Also there is a bit of free play in my tailstock barrel clamp...Maybe tighten it up as much as possible while feeding so as to get a more accurate center...

[Olle]

Thanks for the tips, I have already bid on what I think is a good, US made reamer on eBay so I hope I can get going pretty soon. I don't think it will be too bad, my only major concern is the material. Setting a file to it should give me a good indication of how hard it is. I'll probably get back with more questions before I start, I usually want to cross the t's and dot the i's over and over ad nauseam every time I'm fixin' to ruin something expensive.

I really won't have much use for the reamer once I'm done, so if you have time to wait I'll just send it to you. I might even send it to you when I get it, so you can try first.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

I really won't have much use for the reamer once I'm done, so if you have time to wait I'll just send it to you. I might even send it to you when I get it, so you can try first.

Too late. I added it to my current Travers order; it should be here by Wednesday.

While I have the tailstock 'barrel' out, I'm going to graduate it. I have a scribed line every inch (only 3 inches travel), but I'd like some more graduations...At least every eighth...

I also need to thin the base boltheads...They interfere with my Luger barrel taper cutting...

[Olle]

Originally Posted by postino

While I have the tailstock 'barrel' out, I'm going to graduate it. I have a scribed line every inch (only 3 inches travel), but I'd like some more graduations...At least every eighth...

I think I'm going to upgrade mine to some kind of simple DRO. I have seen them made by modifying and attaching digital calipers, which would make it accurate and very easy to read. I added that to my mini mill a while back, and it makes life so much easier.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

I think I'm going to upgrade mine to some kind of simple DRO. I have seen them made by modifying and attaching digital calipers, which would make it accurate and very easy to read. I added that to my mini mill a while back, and it makes life so much easier.

I really don't know enough about DRO's to tell what you're showing...

I had looked into DRO's some years ago and the ones I looked at fastened to the table and had a 'tire' that ran along the way...Didn't look too dependable or trustworthy to me...

I'm looking at several in Travers catalog and I can't tell how they measure the distance traveled except that I don't see that stupid 'tire' so I'm guessing they use some kind of linear gradient to measure with...

Even the 2-axis DRO's are expensive...

[Olle]

Originally Posted by postino

I really don't know enough about DRO's to tell what you're showing...

I had looked into DRO's some years ago and the ones I looked at fastened to the table and had a 'tire' that ran along the way...Didn't look too dependable or trustworthy to me...

I'm looking at several in Travers catalog and I can't tell how they measure the distance traveled except that I don't see that stupid 'tire' so I'm guessing they use some kind of linear gradient to measure with...

Even the 2-axis DRO's are expensive...

You must have looked at something pretty old, the modern ones work just like digital calipers, with a magnetic strip and a reading unit. I took a chance and bought some cheap ones (here's the 12" model: http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Digital-R...ht_1231wt_1249), and they have worked great. It's a "universal fit" so it took a bit of thinking and tinkering to come up with good locations, brackets etc, but they make life so much easier. No more counting turns, just crank it and read the display.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

You must have looked at something pretty old, the modern ones work just like digital calipers, with a magnetic strip and a reading unit. I took a chance and bought some cheap ones, and they have worked great. It's a "universal fit" so it took a bit of thinking and tinkering to come up with good locations, brackets etc, but they make life so much easier. No more counting turns, just crank it and read the display.

Thanks for the links & pics!!!

It says the strips can be cut to suit...So I would want to order the next size longer than my travel and cut it to fit???

I have both x & y axis on my 3in1 Chinese machine...So I would need two kits??? Or three if I wanted to get z axis [quill] readout as well???

I spray a lot of chips...Does the strip & reader need to be covered from chips/lubricant???

My 3in1 [pic below] has a 40" bed but only 33" of it is really usable...And the cross feed is 18" but only 7" is usable...

I'm thinking one 35" and one 12" and I'll cut them to fit...

I'm wondering if the display is quick-changeable...can you use it for x axis first, then change leads and use it for y axis??? That would cut down the number of heads/displays...Or will the display show all three axes at once???

Edit: Oh, I see what you did...You have three displays on a 'gang' mount...Clever...

Thanks for any help you can give!!!

[Olle]

Originally Posted by postino

Thanks for the links & pics!!!

It says the strips can be cut to suit...So I would want to order the next size longer than my travel and cut it to fit???

I have both x & y axis on my 3in1 Chinese machine...So I would need two kits??? Or three if I wanted to get z axis [quill] readout as well???

I spray a lot of chips...Does the strip & reader need to be covered from chips/lubricant???

My 3in1 [pic below] has a 40" bed but only 33" of it is really usable...And the cross feed is 18" but only 7" is usable...

I'm thinking one 35" and one 12" and I'll cut them to fit...

I'm wondering if the display is quick-changeable...can you use it for x axis first, then change leads and use it for y axis??? That would cut down the number of heads/displays...Or will the display show all three axes at once???

Edit: Oh, I see what you did...You have three displays on a 'gang' mount...Clever...

Thanks for any help you can give!!!

Yep, the rails can be cut so you just order them long enough and trim them. And yes, you will need one kit for each axis. I wouldn't use coolant with cheapo DROs like this, but I haven't had any problems with chips or occasional spills of cutting fluid. The only issue I have had was when I had the readouts mounted on the side of the motor, seems like they didn't like the magnetic field and they freaked out now and then. I mounted them on a swing/swivel/extendable arm, and they have been trouble free ever since. I have had them on for about a year now (probably around 100-150 hours of run time), not sure how long they will last, but if they crap out I'll just buy new ones.

The only difficult part about installing them is to figure out where to put them, and I'm not sure where that would be on the 3-in-1. I have yet to figure out where to put them on the lathe, it's a fairly good size mini lathe (an 8x14 Emco Compact 8), but it will still be a tight fit. I would definitely try and put it on x, y and z, and one on the tailstock would also be good. I'm going to try modified digital calipers on my tailstock though, I think it will make for a cleaner and more compact installation.

One good thing about these DROs is that they have separate displays. I believe Shars and others sells a similar setup but with 3 displays in one unit, but that probably means that you have to buy a whole new setup if something breaks. There's also DROs with the readouts directly on the readers (like on digital calipers), but the remote displays are much better as they can be put in a place where you can read them easily. The cross slide might be another story though, on that you may want to go with a direct readout so you don't get the cable tangled up in something. The cables may look like they would be in the way on the mill, but they're really not. And knock on wood, I havent damaged them yet, just make sure they are out of the way so they don't get pinched when you're cranking the table.

Other than that it's pretty self-explanatory, once you get them out of the box you'll see how simple they really are. You'll get some universal brackets, screws etc but you'll still have to fabricate brackets, spacers etc to fit on your machine. Just make sure that they are mounted straight and square so the readers slide smoothly without rubbing or binding, and they should work just fine. I can usually cut well within 1/1000" and the repeatability is within the same range, so I'm more than happy with them. If you shoot me a PM with your e-mail, I can send you more pictures to give you some ideas.

[Olle]

By the way, you might be interested in my "redneck power feed" as well. Using the jam nuts on the hand wheels to adjust the backlash is a pretty dicey proposition, so I replaced them with with extension nuts and set screws. After doing that, I realized that a cordless power drill with a socket would make for a handy power feed, just put it on the nut and let your sensitive trigger finger do the cranking. You'd think that the nuts would come off when running in reverse, but even though I have my gibs set pretty tight, the nuts still won't budge as long as the set screws are tightened real good. Simple, but very functional, so now I always keep a small power drill laying there next to the mill.

[sheepherder]

I'm not convinced they'd be worth my time...If I'm milling, I only have about the width of the table in travel...And turning anything long (like a rifle barrel) I can eyeball until I get close and then run it in by hand...My cheapo machine has [variable] x & y axis feed, so I don't need the power drill feed...Although if I could run the drill slow enough, it might be good for tapering pistol barrels (running the toolpost feed to make my taper)...

I do see why Travers DROs are ~$799; they're self contained. No problem with chip or fluid contamination.

I could easily mount the 35" DRO on the backside of the 3in1 lathe frame; the 12" crossfeed DRO would have to go on the left (gib locks are on the right)...Have to see what comes up in the future as to what benefit DROs would be to me...

Thanks for the pics, ideas, and insights!!!

[Olle]

Originally Posted by postino

I'm not convinced they'd be worth my time...If I'm milling, I only have about the width of the table in travel...And turning anything long (like a rifle barrel) I can eyeball until I get close and then run it in by hand...My cheapo machine has [variable] x & y axis feed, so I don't need the power drill feed...Although if I could run the drill slow enough, it might be good for tapering pistol barrels (running the toolpost feed to make my taper)...

I do see why Travers DROs are ~$799; they're self contained. No problem with chip or fluid contamination.

I could easily mount the 35" DRO on the backside of the 3in1 lathe frame; the 12" crossfeed DRO would have to go on the left (gib locks are on the right)...Have to see what comes up in the future as to what benefit DROs would be to me...

Thanks for the pics, ideas, and insights!!!

The benefits of DROs will, of course, depend on what you use your equipment for. Milling surfaces flat, running a taper on a barrel etc is no problem (you don't even need the dials to do that), but you'll see the advantage when you start making stuff that requires several passes in different directions to get to a certain shape. The beauty of DROs is that it makes it unnecessary to count and remember how many times you crank the hand wheel, multiply that number by travel/turn and all that stuff that makes traditional machining so tedious. You just index the blank, figure out the X-Y-Z stopping points (i.e. the finished surface of the work), then you don't have to worry about if you turned the crank 8 or 9 turns. You can leave for supper and come back, and the numbers will still be there on the display, right as you left them. I'm forgetful and easily distracted, so having the DROs remembering the numbers is a great feature.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

You can leave for supper and come back, and the numbers will still be there on the display, right as you left them. I'm forgetful and easily distracted, so having the DROs remembering the numbers is a great feature.

Getting engrossed in my work and neglecting to eat is one of my many faults...

I just finished replacing the parking brake cable on my Xterra; next up is replacing the timing belt and/or the rusted out rear bumper...I'm looking to see if Sears (I have their charge card) has a needle scaler to chip the rust off my trailer hitch/receiver...Then I can paint it and mount the new bumper (which I primed and will finish paint later this week)...

DROs will have to wait...

[Olle]

Originally Posted by postino

My cheapo machine has [variable] x & y axis feed, so I don't need the power drill feed...Although if I could run the drill slow enough, it might be good for tapering pistol barrels (running the toolpost feed to make my taper)...

I must have been tired when I read it, so I missed that part. Are you saying that you can cut a taper by running the x and y feed simultaneously, kind of like what a CNC would do? I don't have to cut tapers very often (fortunately), but when I do I have to either offset the tailstock, or use the compound for steeper and shorter tapers.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

Are you saying that you can cut a taper by running the x and y feed simultaneously...or use the compound for steeper and shorter tapers.

I now use the compound rest for all my tapers.

But I've mused about hooking up a motor & cog belt to run it. A 5" taper Luger barrel takes quite a bit of time; my cheapo motor doesn't have the grunt to take off more than .015" of steel at a time...

[Olle]

Originally Posted by postino

I now use the compound rest for all my tapers.

But I've mused about hooking up a motor & cog belt to run it. A 5" taper Luger barrel takes quite a bit of time; my cheapo motor doesn't have the grunt to take off more than .015" of steel at a time...

How much travel do you have in the compound? I can only run maybe 1 1/2" - 2" on mine, so it's not enough for any longer pieces, like barrels and such. Or do you cut it one section at a time?

I'm not sure if you can contol a motor precisely enough to cut tapers, seems like you need something pretty advanced to make the compound screw run perfectly syncronized with the lead screw. A stepper motor controlled by a reader on the lead screw would be one solution, but then you're pretty much half way to CNC. You could, of course, use a half nut, a change gear arrangement, a spider gear, cog belt etc to do it mechanically, but this would be an engineering nightmare.

And .015" doesn't sound too bad, I usually try and stay under .010" (using HSS cutters). I can cut more than that, but it will get pretty darn hot at the RPMs I like to use. I just love getting whipped by a hot wad of swarf when it gets wound up and thrown at me.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

How much travel do you have in the compound?

Three inches.

I can only run maybe 1 1/2" - 2" on mine, so it's not enough for any longer pieces, like barrels and such. Or do you cut it one section at a time?

I cut the entire taper .015" at a time. Just move the table down and pick up my zero.

I'm not sure if you can contol a motor precisely enough to cut tapers, seems like you need something pretty advanced to make the compound screw run perfectly syncronized with the lead screw

Why would I need any synchronization??? My manual feed [my hand] isn't synchronized...

I just love getting whipped by a hot wad of swarf when it gets wound up and thrown at me.

Yeah...A nice long snake that suddenly whips around...Heh...

Here's one for you...I have a replacement engine for my infamous riding lawn mower; it has an exhaust pipe with a 1" male pipe thread for the muffler...The threads are all rusty, I can't get the new muffler on...It's a tight 90º bend, how do I chase the threads???

It won't unscrew without breaking the cast iron cylinder (don't ask me how I know) and there's not enough room for a conventional pipe threader...

Anyone have any ideas???

[Olle]

Originally Posted by postino

Why would I need any synchronization??? My manual feed [my hand] isn't synchronized...

My bad, I meant the cross feed, not the compound feed. If you can make the cross feed sychronized with the lead screw, you would be able to cut long tapers without any effort.

Originally Posted by postino

Here's one for you...I have a replacement engine for my infamous riding lawn mower; it has an exhaust pipe with a 1" male pipe thread for the muffler...The threads are all rusty, I can't get the new muffler on...It's a tight 90º bend, how do I chase the threads???

It won't unscrew without breaking the cast iron cylinder (don't ask me how I know) and there's not enough room for a conventional pipe threader...

Anyone have any ideas???

I would try a thread file ( http://tetoolsusa.com/tools/index.ph...25ce84fd19842c ). You can also use a triangular needle file, it has the correct 60 degree angle for this. It's easier than it sounds, the file will follow the thread easily and the rust will be your "layout dye" to show you when you have cut deep enough. It's a bit tedious, but I have fixed many old car parts by simply filing the threads.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Olle

I would try a thread file...

I may do that...Travers does have a hexagonal 1" pipe die, but my last order just came (#2 MT reamer!) and I don't really need anything else right now...I do need to make a trip to Sears, maybe they have one...I could probably rent one of those ratcheting pipe threaders from a rent-all place...Throw the engine in the back of the Xterra...Heh..."How much to rent a 1" pipe threader for 5 minutes?"...

Take longer to fill out the paperwork than chase the threads...

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by postino

I may do that...Travers does have a hexagonal 1" pipe die, but my last order just came (#2 MT reamer!) and I don't really need anything else right now...I do need to make a trip to Sears, maybe they have one...I could probably rent one of those ratcheting pipe threaders from a rent-all place...Throw the engine in the back of the Xterra...Heh..."How much to rent a 1" pipe threader for 5 minutes?"...

Take longer to fill out the paperwork than chase the threads...

postie, try a fabricating shop. Most are used to weird, short requests, and probably have the 1" tapered pipe die.