Mr. Petroni's Navy 'Gouv. Kiau. 4' Complete Rig

Imperial Arms · 12-13-2002, 01:25 PM

I must congratulate Mr. Petroni for providing wonderful images of his outstanding condition 1906 Navy Luger in the Luger Forum Member Gallery. It has everything I like to see including little signs of 'patina'. Truly an honest and fantastic Navy for a military gun with a matching stock/holster/straps and accessories.

While on the subject, I would like to know why some Navy Military stocks are simply stamped with the 'Crown M' proof mark and other stocks have a disc with the unit mark?

What a find and well done!

Happy hunting,
Albert

phoenix · 12-15-2002, 01:42 PM

Thanks Albert! It's a very neat set with excellent provenance.

Regards,
Steve

phoenix · 12-25-2002, 04:08 AM

http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergal...me=S-A-Petroni

phoenix · 02-12-2003, 03:49 AM

My friend Joe Wotka helped me to dig up the following information regarding the original owner of the unique Navy Luger "Gouv.Kiau." rig:

Leutnant Fritz Schleissner

Born September 13, 1876
Entered Navy October 1894
Served as enlisted ordnanceman in various ranks
Commissioned Ordnance Lieutenant July 23, 1912
Assigned Artillery Depot in Tientsin, China 1914
Japanese POW 1914 Ã¢?? 1918
Promoted to Ordnance Senior Lieutenant October 1915
Discharged March 8, 1920
Promoted to Ordnance Captain (Feuerwerks Kaptainleutnant) April 12, 1920
Entered the Reichsmarine and was serving as "Navy Engineer" at the Cruxhaven Artillery Depot in 1924.

John Sabato · 02-12-2003, 04:44 AM

How did you ever find out that information about the pistol's owner and make the connection to the gun?

I am fascinated by this discovery.

phoenix · 02-12-2003, 07:02 AM

Hi John, just visit my album for this Navy Luger and you can see that this officer painted his name on the stock ( http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergallery/S-A-Petroni ). That was the easy bit - tracing his history proved somewhat more difficult!

Cheers,
Steve

karmast · 03-13-2003, 06:45 AM

This is really amazing!!!

Not only this wonderful set with this grip marking! I like it!
But to find out something more about the former owner! What a great discovery!

Dwight Gruber · 03-13-2003, 09:53 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperial Arms:
While on the subject, I would like to know why some Navy Military stocks are simply stamped with the 'Crown M' proof mark and other stocks have a disc with the unit mark?<hr /></blockquote>In February 1910 a directive was sent to the Keil dockyard that henceforth all P-04 shoulder stocks will be delivered with the brass marking disc. Also, provisions were made for existing stocks to be returned to dockyard to have the disc fitted. This from GÃ?Â¶rtz & Bryans German Small Arms Markings, p.52.

--Dwight

phoenix · 03-17-2003, 03:42 PM

Thanks for the comments. I just got more information about the former owner (thanks to Joe Wotka!) and I have added it to one of the photos in my album:

http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergal..._GK_pist_rig_l

Cheers!

Herb · 03-17-2003, 06:31 PM

Here is a great resource that I have used in the past, but that was before the Americans gave it back to the Germans.
http://www.archives.gov/research_roo...nt_center.html
If you have the name they probably have the military records. Good hunting.

12-13-2002, 01:25 PM	#1
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Mr. Petroni's Navy 'Gouv. Kiau. 4' Complete Rig I must congratulate Mr. Petroni for providing wonderful images of his outstanding condition 1906 Navy Luger in the Luger Forum Member Gallery. It has everything I like to see including little signs of 'patina'. Truly an honest and fantastic Navy for a military gun with a matching stock/holster/straps and accessories. While on the subject, I would like to know why some Navy Military stocks are simply stamped with the 'Crown M' proof mark and other stocks have a disc with the unit mark? What a find and well done! Happy hunting, Albert

12-15-2002, 01:42 PM	#2
phoenix User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Albert! It's a very neat set with excellent provenance. Regards, Steve __________________ Stephen A. Petroni www.fesac.eu

12-25-2002, 04:08 AM	#3
phoenix User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergal...me=S-A-Petroni __________________ Stephen A. Petroni www.fesac.eu

02-12-2003, 03:49 AM	#4
phoenix User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My friend Joe Wotka helped me to dig up the following information regarding the original owner of the unique Navy Luger "Gouv.Kiau." rig: Leutnant Fritz Schleissner Born September 13, 1876 Entered Navy October 1894 Served as enlisted ordnanceman in various ranks Commissioned Ordnance Lieutenant July 23, 1912 Assigned Artillery Depot in Tientsin, China 1914 Japanese POW 1914 Ã¢?? 1918 Promoted to Ordnance Senior Lieutenant October 1915 Discharged March 8, 1920 Promoted to Ordnance Captain (Feuerwerks Kaptainleutnant) April 12, 1920 Entered the Reichsmarine and was serving as "Navy Engineer" at the Cruxhaven Artillery Depot in 1924. __________________ Stephen A. Petroni www.fesac.eu

02-12-2003, 04:44 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	How did you ever find out that information about the pistol's owner and make the connection to the gun? I am fascinated by this discovery. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-12-2003, 07:02 AM	#6
phoenix User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi John, just visit my album for this Navy Luger and you can see that this officer painted his name on the stock ( http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergallery/S-A-Petroni ). That was the easy bit - tracing his history proved somewhat more difficult! Cheers, Steve __________________ Stephen A. Petroni www.fesac.eu

03-13-2003, 06:45 AM	#7
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is really amazing!!! Not only this wonderful set with this grip marking! I like it! But to find out something more about the former owner! What a great discovery! __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..

03-13-2003, 09:53 AM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Imperial Arms: <strong>While on the subject, I would like to know why some Navy Military stocks are simply stamped with the 'Crown M' proof mark and other stocks have a disc with the unit mark?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">In February 1910 a directive was sent to the Keil dockyard that henceforth all P-04 shoulder stocks will be delivered with the brass marking disc. Also, provisions were made for existing stocks to be returned to dockyard to have the disc fitted. This from GÃ?Â¶rtz & Bryans German Small Arms Markings, p.52. --Dwight

03-17-2003, 03:42 PM	#9
phoenix User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the comments. I just got more information about the former owner (thanks to Joe Wotka!) and I have added it to one of the photos in my album: http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergal..._GK_pist_rig_l Cheers! __________________ Stephen A. Petroni www.fesac.eu

03-17-2003, 06:31 PM	#10
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Here is a great resource that I have used in the past, but that was before the Americans gave it back to the Germans. http://www.archives.gov/research_roo...nt_center.html If you have the name they probably have the military records. Good hunting. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull