Orimar Luger - current sear arrangement

TOGGLELOCK · 12-15-2003, 07:26 PM

Very interesting reading. I remember one post which made mention of a different sear arrangement or "dead pin" with no possibility of sear removal. Can the sear on the Orimar be taken out like war time Lugers?

TOGGLELOCK · 12-17-2003, 07:27 AM

Wow that really sucks. I always liked the old (ORIGINAL) design of the sear in Lugers. Thank you Rick W and Thor for your help in answering this. Hopefully Orimar will follow original design and stick with a removable sear.

Thor · 12-17-2003, 08:30 AM

There are other changes too, like the long angled pin that holds the trigger lever in place inside the side plate. The modern AIMCO that I have looked at has a flush length roll pin in its place.

TOGGLELOCK · 12-17-2003, 04:39 PM

Thor,
Can you get any pictures of production changes to the stainless steel Lugers for us to view?

John Sabato · 12-17-2003, 04:44 PM

While you are waiting, you can check out five pages of photographs of different stainless steel model Lugers in the Member Gallery...

Here is a shortcut.

http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergallery/Stainless

Steve Richards · 12-17-2003, 08:25 PM

Page 5 of the gallery linked by John shows the sideplates of both a vintage and one of my new stainless guns with the stainless sideplate on the left. The differences in the pins shows clearly. Other photos on page 4 and 5 show a vintage and new side-by-side from various angles. The photos were taken one afternoon by Dwight after we met at the shooting range.

Steve

TOGGLELOCK · 12-17-2003, 09:45 PM

Thank's John and much thank's Steve. I hope you guys don't think I am being neurotic about the Sear in the new Luger. I just love to take that Sear out from time to time and marvel at the design. What do you folks think of the .30 Luger from Orimar? I've got to get one. Gun addiction is a very bad thing money wise! I wish that Orimar would make one with a stock, drum and Artillery sights. Now that would be a cool gun!

Johnny C. Kitchens · 12-18-2003, 12:40 AM

The takedown lever uses a spring loaded detent ball setup to hold it in place. The stainless is missing a ridge that runs horizontally above the sear. Not sure if it served a purpose, probably saved some machine work...

Johnny C. Kitchens · 12-18-2003, 12:48 AM

Here is a side view of the sear area of a byf 42 and a stainless...

TOGGLELOCK · 12-18-2003, 07:09 AM

Johnny,
That's a cool picture. Your BYF has a small punch mark on the Sear (maybe a RC test)? Do you think you can pull the Toggle assembly out and shoot a closer picture of the Sear on the stainless? Your ss Luger, is it an Orimar? Looks nice. TOGGLELOCK

TOGGLELOCK · 12-18-2003, 07:15 AM

Pin that holds the Toggle looks a lot bigger on your stainless steel Luger. The spring loaded detent sound a lot better then the C shaped spring (regards to holding in the Takedown Lever). TOGGLELOCK

Thor · 12-18-2003, 08:00 AM

Notice also the pattern of knurling on the two toggles is different. I like the old style myself. The rear toggle axle pin is WAY bigger in the head section much like some of the original Navy Luger pins. This design is similar to the hump on most Mauser Lugers it helps keep that pin in place when the gun was in full recoil.

Johnny C. Kitchens · 12-18-2003, 09:15 PM

Here is a comparison shot of the toggles...

Steve Richards · 12-19-2003, 02:20 AM

The thing to remember about the new stainless steel parts is that they are cast rather than machined. It costs less but some shapes cannot be cast in a mold very readily.

What looks like knurling on the toggle nobs is actually indents into the nob rather than raised points.

I suppose that things like that are the tradeoffs to get a gun that costs around $700-$800 rather than $15,000.

One other thing is that the grip is larger on the stainless guns. My artillery measures 1.75" front to back just above the stock lug and the stainless is 1.85". Not much, but definately enough to feel!

I am no foundry person but one could probably compare the two and explain why most of the changes were made due to casting considerations.
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

12-15-2003, 07:26 PM	#1
TOGGLELOCK User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Orimar Luger - current sear arrangement Very interesting reading. I remember one post which made mention of a different sear arrangement or "dead pin" with no possibility of sear removal. Can the sear on the Orimar be taken out like war time Lugers?

12-17-2003, 08:30 AM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	There are other changes too, like the long angled pin that holds the trigger lever in place inside the side plate. The modern AIMCO that I have looked at has a flush length roll pin in its place. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-17-2003, 04:44 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	While you are waiting, you can check out five pages of photographs of different stainless steel model Lugers in the Member Gallery... Here is a shortcut. http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergallery/Stainless __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-18-2003, 12:40 AM	#8
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	The takedown lever uses a spring loaded detent ball setup to hold it in place. The stainless is missing a ridge that runs horizontally above the sear. Not sure if it served a purpose, probably saved some machine work... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

12-18-2003, 12:48 AM	#9
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Here is a side view of the sear area of a byf 42 and a stainless... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

12-17-2003, 07:27 AM	#2
TOGGLELOCK User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow that really sucks. I always liked the old (ORIGINAL) design of the sear in Lugers. Thank you Rick W and Thor for your help in answering this. Hopefully Orimar will follow original design and stick with a removable sear.

12-17-2003, 04:39 PM	#4
TOGGLELOCK User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor, Can you get any pictures of production changes to the stainless steel Lugers for us to view?

12-17-2003, 08:25 PM	#6
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Page 5 of the gallery linked by John shows the sideplates of both a vintage and one of my new stainless guns with the stainless sideplate on the left. The differences in the pins shows clearly. Other photos on page 4 and 5 show a vintage and new side-by-side from various angles. The photos were taken one afternoon by Dwight after we met at the shooting range. Steve

12-17-2003, 09:45 PM	#7
TOGGLELOCK User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank's John and much thank's Steve. I hope you guys don't think I am being neurotic about the Sear in the new Luger. I just love to take that Sear out from time to time and marvel at the design. What do you folks think of the .30 Luger from Orimar? I've got to get one. Gun addiction is a very bad thing money wise! I wish that Orimar would make one with a stock, drum and Artillery sights. Now that would be a cool gun!

12-18-2003, 07:09 AM	#10
TOGGLELOCK User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Johnny, That's a cool picture. Your BYF has a small punch mark on the Sear (maybe a RC test)? Do you think you can pull the Toggle assembly out and shoot a closer picture of the Sear on the stainless? Your ss Luger, is it an Orimar? Looks nice. TOGGLELOCK

12-18-2003, 07:15 AM	#11
TOGGLELOCK User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: USA Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pin that holds the Toggle looks a lot bigger on your stainless steel Luger. The spring loaded detent sound a lot better then the C shaped spring (regards to holding in the Takedown Lever). TOGGLELOCK

12-18-2003, 08:00 AM	#12
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Notice also the pattern of knurling on the two toggles is different. I like the old style myself. The rear toggle axle pin is WAY bigger in the head section much like some of the original Navy Luger pins. This design is similar to the hump on most Mauser Lugers it helps keep that pin in place when the gun was in full recoil. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-18-2003, 09:15 PM	#13
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Here is a comparison shot of the toggles... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

12-19-2003, 02:20 AM	#14
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The thing to remember about the new stainless steel parts is that they are cast rather than machined. It costs less but some shapes cannot be cast in a mold very readily. What looks like knurling on the toggle nobs is actually indents into the nob rather than raised points. I suppose that things like that are the tradeoffs to get a gun that costs around $700-$800 rather than $15,000. One other thing is that the grip is larger on the stainless guns. My artillery measures 1.75" front to back just above the stock lug and the stainless is 1.85". Not much, but definately enough to feel! I am no foundry person but one could probably compare the two and explain why most of the changes were made due to casting considerations. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />