Not extracting

lugerP08thomas · 11-14-2013, 05:46 PM

When i fire my P08 it won't eject the case, extractor seems to be just fine as when i use a not fired bullet it comes out just fine.
Barrel has minor pitting inside but still a good bore.
Maybe just a good clean of the chamber? But what should i use?

Thanks

ithacaartist · 11-15-2013, 03:20 AM

Welcome, Thomas

If your chamber is cruddy, a brass bore brush and Hoppe's #9. Everybody seems to have their preferences.

Make sure there is no crud under the extractor. Check also to ascertain that your extractor is not damaged. You may need to replace your extractor's spring, a relatively simple operation. Don't forget a drop of lube where it pivots.

John Sabato · 11-15-2013, 08:03 AM

Check also to see if the tip of your ejector is broken off. The tip should be almost as wide as the slot in the bolt face through which it protrudes when the bolt is in the rearmost position.

policeluger · 11-15-2013, 12:26 PM

polish the chamber with cocus??spelling, cloth.....workes all the time

John Sabato · 11-15-2013, 01:19 PM

Crocus... Crocus cloth... dark red in color and cloth not paper... The grit level is the same as jewelers rouge and is about 600 to 1000...

policeluger · 11-15-2013, 05:00 PM

Yes friend, I take a thin soft wood dowl, cut a cross cut in the wood about 1/2" deep, take a small but tight fitting wrapping of crocus cloth, hand tight chuck it up,a half drop of good oil and polish chamber.....carefull don't change calibers, just give it a nice polish......now I got all forms of finist/polish reamers,done this for the past 40 years so not really ready for you "try this"" idea.....it works

lugerholsterrepair · 11-15-2013, 06:29 PM

When i fire my P08 it won't eject the case..It HAS to extract in order to eject. I sense some confusion here. It will not extract from the chamber? Or... it extracts but will not eject as you say? You are confusing apples and oranges seemingly..

lugerP08thomas · 11-16-2013, 02:17 PM

Sorry won't extract it out of the chamber when fired but when i have bullit in the chamber and don't fire but pull the toggle back it will extract and eject.

lugerholsterrepair · 11-16-2013, 03:09 PM

Yes friend, I take a thin soft wood dowl, cut a cross cut in the wood about 1/2" deep, take a small but tight fitting wrapping of crocus cloth, hand tight chuck it up,a half drop of good oil and polish chamber.....carefull don't change calibers, just give it a nice polish...

Howard gives good advice..Can't hurt and you will eliminate one of the potential problems. Could well be one of the other problems too..

ithacaartist · 11-17-2013, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerP08thomas

Sorry won't extract it out of the chamber when fired but when i have bullit in the chamber and don't fire but pull the toggle back it will extract and eject.

This is a sign of rough chamber--or at least rough enough to affect ejection. When a round is fired, the brass case expands due to the pressure established, form-fitting it to the walls of the chamber. Of course, an un-fired round should slip in slick, and pretty much fall out of the chamber if the barrel is pointed up with the toggle retracted. If not fired, the brass case is not expanded.

When there is sufficient roughness to provide enough friction for a certain level of resistance to extraction, the extractor's claw slips off the rim and the fired round stays in place. The polishing by the crocus cloth approach removes the microscopic high spots inherent in the roughness which have been holding the case in. A smooth chamber will allow the very slight taper of the case to move with very little force required, since with smooth walls, there is little or nothing locking or grabbing the shell's outer walls.

Go easy, as the other guys mention...a few spins of the polisher setup...give 'er a try... another few spins if necessary...etc. Also check visually as you go. A final tip, slip the setup into the chamber, then do the spins. Keep the 1/2" strip of crocus cloth moving in and out smoothly to help make the polishing even, and avoid rounding the back rim of the breech by not pulling the setup back too far.

FirstUSCavalry · 12-29-2013, 11:01 PM

Pardon me for butting in. I've got a Mauser made P08 made in 1942. The firearm is in excellent condition, all matching serial numbers, bright bore with only light holster wear in the usual places.
I'm new to handloading and have had a problem with two batches of hand loaded ammunition. The hand loads are 115 gr FMJ RN bullet, 5.3 grains of Winchester WSF using a new Starline case and CCI primers. The fired case does not fully eject from the chamber and the toggle partially pushes a new round from the magazine that jams under the partially extracted case.
I've been using Fiocchi 124 gr FMJ Truncated Cone ammunition as a control. These do not fail to extract, although I occasionally get a "stovepipe", which is easy to clear.
I've been very careful in measuring the case dimensions of the 9mm hand loads, which cycle flawlessly through my Glock 17 and Browning Hi Power.
Is it possible the powder is too fast? Does anyone have a good hand load to recommend?

Sieger · 12-30-2013, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstUSCavalry

Pardon me for butting in. I've got a Mauser made P08 made in 1942. The firearm is in excellent condition, all matching serial numbers, bright bore with only light holster wear in the usual places.
I'm new to handloading and have had a problem with two batches of hand loaded ammunition. The hand loads are 115 gr FMJ RN bullet, 5.3 grains of Winchester WSF using a new Starline case and CCI primers. The fired case does not fully eject from the chamber and the toggle partially pushes a new round from the magazine that jams under the partially extracted case.
I've been using Fiocchi 124 gr FMJ Truncated Cone ammunition as a control. These do not fail to extract, although I occasionally get a "stovepipe", which is easy to clear.
I've been very careful in measuring the case dimensions of the 9mm hand loads, which cycle flawlessly through my Glock 17 and Browning Hi Power.
Is it possible the powder is too fast? Does anyone have a good hand load to recommend?

Hi,

Please search my thread in Reloading 9MM for P-08 in the Shooting and Reloading Section, as it will address and answer many of your questions. It is a current thread.

Sieger

FirstUSCavalry · 12-30-2013, 11:40 AM

Thank you much. Will do.

Lugerdoc · 12-30-2013, 11:54 AM

If your chamber is eroded so much that a new loaded round can be moved up & down or from left to right a notasable distance, it may be time for a new barrel or a realnement. Tom

ithacaartist · 12-31-2013, 12:49 AM

Tom, I think you may need a new keyboard...

Or get a realignment for the existing one?

F15E_WSO · 08-11-2018, 05:33 PM

Gentlemen,
This thread seems to lean in the direction of my issue. Gun fired for the first time in a LONG time. All went well to include the bullet going down range!! Gun all in one piece.

Using Fiocchi 765A Specialty 30 Luger 93 GR Metal Case (FMJ), assuming pretty standard. The issue was the casings would not come out.

As the mag is already a problem with the "hold back" and the button height a new Mec-Gar mag inbound. With faulty mag and suspect condition of gun I was running ONE bullet in the Mag at a time. I did put two in the mag once to see if that would help--it didn't. Could this be a mag issue too?

I fired seven rounds total, In only ONE case did the casing come close to getting ejected, it was "caught" in the breech in a vertical position with the rim down, empty opening up. As close as it came to getting one out.

I checked the extractor, looks good, it holds a casing quite well, feels "right". The extractor moves easily, assume spring is good as well.

Current thread seems to indicate cleaning/smoothing chamber, expansion of casing after firing etc. So I've smoothed the chamber and maybe that helped.

To the point, (finally) is it possible to Check the capability of ejecting the round without actually firing? Is there a way to mimic the action of the toggle by hand or is the only way to do a real operational check is by firing. Before I go back to the range I'd like to know if I MAY have solved the problem.

My wife took a short video of the first round to send to the kids; bit grainy but seems to show the toggle rising up. Video NOT taken to highlight that but it appears Toggle flew up and back.

Can post photos if needed, also if this thread or post needs to go elsewhere, please indicate.

DavidJayUden · 08-11-2018, 06:48 PM

I'm confused if your problem is extraction or ejection. If the brass is stuck in the chamber because the extractor let go of it (slipped off the rim) that is one thing, if it is simply not being thrown clear of the gun before the toggle starts forward, that is another.
You should be able to cycle it by hand to see if it is pulling it out of the chamber, but of course if a porrus chamber is the issue non-firing will not show the problem.
Clarify the problem for me please.
dju

lugerholsterrepair · 08-11-2018, 07:24 PM

Denny is correct..clarification is always good. You say the extractor moves up and down easily. Could be a weak spring? Have you closely inspected the extractor lips?

Take out the firing pin. Insert a magazine of rounds..try to work the toggle to extract them all.

Take a look at your ejector to see that it is complete and not chipped or broken.

4 Scale · 08-11-2018, 08:18 PM

Dummy rounds aka snap caps are a useful accessory to manually test the action of Lugers. The dummy rounds can be loaded and the action manually cycled, the dummies should eject and chamber.

F15E_WSO's issue seems to have both an extraction and a partial ejection (stovepipe) issue. Extraction has been covered above. On ejection the first thing i would try is different ammo, on 3 out of 4 of my .30 Luger pistols Fiocchi does not have sufficient energy to operate the action. Plus the round is a little shorter than ideal. Prvi Partisan aka PPU ammo solves both the energy and length issues and is preferred on my three .30 Luger pistols that don't like Fiocchi, however PPU is currently out of stock in the USA at least on the internet (see separate thread).

F15E_WSO · 08-11-2018, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I'm confused if your problem is extraction or ejection. If the brass is stuck in the chamber because the extractor let go of it (slipped off the rim) that is one thing, if it is simply not being thrown clear of the gun before the toggle starts forward, that is another.
You should be able to cycle it by hand to see if it is pulling it out of the chamber, but of course if a porrus chamber is the issue non-firing will not show the problem.
Clarify the problem for me please.
dju

DavidJayUden, It may be both! I would shoot, no brass coming out. Recall I was loading only one round. So I would invert the gun (or at least past ninety degrees to vertical so breech/opening pointing to ground), then action the toggle by hand and the spent round would tumble out. In all but ONE case the toggle was closed and fully down after firing. One time it trapped a casing between toggle and chamber.

So regarding your comments " the brass is stuck in the chamber because the extractor let go of it (slipped off the rim)"--yeah maybe. But when I would hand action a moment later it came out. Or "simply not being thrown clear of the gun before the toggle starts forward, that is another."--yeah, that happened too with the "chimney" round as mentioned by another.

So since I posted this, went to workbench, cleaned the **** out of it again, cleaned out front of breech-block, under the extractor, cleaned chamber with brass bristle brush, emery #800, oiled, cleaned, oiled again. Then I ran all the rounds that failed to extract/eject this morning and now I'm having them come out with hand actioning. Good news..... but below in another post 4 Scale said the Fiocchi .30 is not up to the task on the toggle and spring--grrrrr. That may be the case here too; hence why I only bought two boxes. Nonetheless that's all I have and the other he recommended is out of stock. I'll have to find another.

Couple pictures of the extractor.

11-14-2013, 05:46 PM	#1
lugerP08thomas User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 34 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Not extracting When i fire my P08 it won't eject the case, extractor seems to be just fine as when i use a not fired bullet it comes out just fine. Barrel has minor pitting inside but still a good bore. Maybe just a good clean of the chamber? But what should i use? Thanks

11-15-2013, 03:20 AM	#2
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,280 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	Welcome, Thomas If your chamber is cruddy, a brass bore brush and Hoppe's #9. Everybody seems to have their preferences. Make sure there is no crud under the extractor. Check also to ascertain that your extractor is not damaged. You may need to replace your extractor's spring, a relatively simple operation. Don't forget a drop of lube where it pivots. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

11-15-2013, 08:03 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Check also to see if the tip of your ejector is broken off. The tip should be almost as wide as the slot in the bolt face through which it protrudes when the bolt is in the rearmost position. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-15-2013, 01:19 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Crocus... Crocus cloth... dark red in color and cloth not paper... The grit level is the same as jewelers rouge and is about 600 to 1000... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-15-2013, 06:29 PM	#7
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	When i fire my P08 it won't eject the case..It HAS to extract in order to eject. I sense some confusion here. It will not extract from the chamber? Or... it extracts but will not eject as you say? You are confusing apples and oranges seemingly.. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

11-15-2013, 12:26 PM	#4
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	polish the chamber with cocus??spelling, cloth.....workes all the time

11-15-2013, 05:00 PM	#6
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Yes friend, I take a thin soft wood dowl, cut a cross cut in the wood about 1/2" deep, take a small but tight fitting wrapping of crocus cloth, hand tight chuck it up,a half drop of good oil and polish chamber.....carefull don't change calibers, just give it a nice polish......now I got all forms of finist/polish reamers,done this for the past 40 years so not really ready for you "try this"" idea.....it works

11-16-2013, 02:17 PM	#8
lugerP08thomas User Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 34 Thanks: 13 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Sorry won't extract it out of the chamber when fired but when i have bullit in the chamber and don't fire but pull the toggle back it will extract and eject.

11-16-2013, 03:09 PM	#9
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Yes friend, I take a thin soft wood dowl, cut a cross cut in the wood about 1/2" deep, take a small but tight fitting wrapping of crocus cloth, hand tight chuck it up,a half drop of good oil and polish chamber.....carefull don't change calibers, just give it a nice polish... Howard gives good advice..Can't hurt and you will eliminate one of the potential problems. Could well be one of the other problems too.. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

12-29-2013, 11:01 PM	#11
FirstUSCavalry User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 12 Thanks: 7 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts	Pardon me for butting in. I've got a Mauser made P08 made in 1942. The firearm is in excellent condition, all matching serial numbers, bright bore with only light holster wear in the usual places. I'm new to handloading and have had a problem with two batches of hand loaded ammunition. The hand loads are 115 gr FMJ RN bullet, 5.3 grains of Winchester WSF using a new Starline case and CCI primers. The fired case does not fully eject from the chamber and the toggle partially pushes a new round from the magazine that jams under the partially extracted case. I've been using Fiocchi 124 gr FMJ Truncated Cone ammunition as a control. These do not fail to extract, although I occasionally get a "stovepipe", which is easy to clear. I've been very careful in measuring the case dimensions of the 9mm hand loads, which cycle flawlessly through my Glock 17 and Browning Hi Power. Is it possible the powder is too fast? Does anyone have a good hand load to recommend?

12-30-2013, 11:40 AM	#13
FirstUSCavalry User Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 12 Thanks: 7 Thanked 10 Times in 4 Posts	Thank you much. Will do.

12-30-2013, 11:54 AM	#14
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	If your chamber is eroded so much that a new loaded round can be moved up & down or from left to right a notasable distance, it may be time for a new barrel or a realnement. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-31-2013, 12:49 AM	#15
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,346 Thanks: 7,280 Thanked 2,578 Times in 1,365 Posts	Tom, I think you may need a new keyboard... Or get a realignment for the existing one? __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

08-11-2018, 05:33 PM	#16
F15E_WSO User Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Nellis AFB NV Posts: 52 Thanks: 55 Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts	Round won't eject....can I check this at home without shooting? Gentlemen, This thread seems to lean in the direction of my issue. Gun fired for the first time in a LONG time. All went well to include the bullet going down range!! Gun all in one piece. Using Fiocchi 765A Specialty 30 Luger 93 GR Metal Case (FMJ), assuming pretty standard. The issue was the casings would not come out. As the mag is already a problem with the "hold back" and the button height a new Mec-Gar mag inbound. With faulty mag and suspect condition of gun I was running ONE bullet in the Mag at a time. I did put two in the mag once to see if that would help--it didn't. Could this be a mag issue too? I fired seven rounds total, In only ONE case did the casing come close to getting ejected, it was "caught" in the breech in a vertical position with the rim down, empty opening up. As close as it came to getting one out. I checked the extractor, looks good, it holds a casing quite well, feels "right". The extractor moves easily, assume spring is good as well. Current thread seems to indicate cleaning/smoothing chamber, expansion of casing after firing etc. So I've smoothed the chamber and maybe that helped. To the point, (finally) is it possible to Check the capability of ejecting the round without actually firing? Is there a way to mimic the action of the toggle by hand or is the only way to do a real operational check is by firing. Before I go back to the range I'd like to know if I MAY have solved the problem. My wife took a short video of the first round to send to the kids; bit grainy but seems to show the toggle rising up. Video NOT taken to highlight that but it appears Toggle flew up and back. Can post photos if needed, also if this thread or post needs to go elsewhere, please indicate.

08-11-2018, 06:48 PM	#17
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm confused if your problem is extraction or ejection. If the brass is stuck in the chamber because the extractor let go of it (slipped off the rim) that is one thing, if it is simply not being thrown clear of the gun before the toggle starts forward, that is another. You should be able to cycle it by hand to see if it is pulling it out of the chamber, but of course if a porrus chamber is the issue non-firing will not show the problem. Clarify the problem for me please. dju

08-11-2018, 07:24 PM	#18
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Denny is correct..clarification is always good. You say the extractor moves up and down easily. Could be a weak spring? Have you closely inspected the extractor lips? Take out the firing pin. Insert a magazine of rounds..try to work the toggle to extract them all. Take a look at your ejector to see that it is complete and not chipped or broken. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-11-2018, 08:18 PM	#19
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Dummy rounds aka snap caps are a useful accessory to manually test the action of Lugers. The dummy rounds can be loaded and the action manually cycled, the dummies should eject and chamber. F15E_WSO's issue seems to have both an extraction and a partial ejection (stovepipe) issue. Extraction has been covered above. On ejection the first thing i would try is different ammo, on 3 out of 4 of my .30 Luger pistols Fiocchi does not have sufficient energy to operate the action. Plus the round is a little shorter than ideal. Prvi Partisan aka PPU ammo solves both the energy and length issues and is preferred on my three .30 Luger pistols that don't like Fiocchi, however PPU is currently out of stock in the USA at least on the internet (see separate thread).