Proof marks on LP 08 boards.

Doug G. · 01-04-2005, 10:31 PM

Here is a compilation of proofs from George Anderson and two of mine. My two are noted on the caption. It would appear to me that there is no definite proof used on DWM or Erfurt?

Opinions?

Sn 246a

1914 Erfurt sn 4469b

1914 Erfurt sn 5865a

1915 DWM sn 3398a

1917 DWM 1126 g My gun matching to gun.

2203

3980g

6713i

DWM 513 My stock not matching to gun.

George Anderson · 01-05-2005, 08:35 AM

Please note that another part of Patrice's question above was whether the Erfurt stock irons carried proofs as the Erfurt pistols do. Neither of my known Erfurt stocks has proofs and, in fact, none of mine have proofs. What does this say about the manufacturing process?

Who made the stock irons?
Who fitted the wood to the iron?
At what point in the process is the stock matched up with the pistol?
Is the crown/M on a Navy stock a proof or an acceptance mark?

Lastly, I have a number of matched rigs where the stock carries no acceptance stamp. I hold all these as suspect. Does anyone have a full matched rig where the stock is not stamped who is absolutely certain that the parts are all original to the rig?

Dwight Gruber · 01-05-2005, 10:46 AM

George,

Stocks and stock irons are not included in the 1910 marking instructions.

--Dwight

Vlim · 01-07-2005, 01:31 PM

Hi,

Goertz mentions a marking sometimes observed on LP08 stocks. It's a small 'A' for 'austausch' or 'swap' and means that the stock may be swapped between pistols.

George Anderson · 01-07-2005, 02:36 PM

Who made the stock irons?
Who fitted the wood to the iron?
At what point in the process is the stock matched up with the pistol?
Is the crown/M on a Navy stock a proof or an acceptance mark?

Lastly, I have a number of matched rigs where the stock carries no acceptance stamp. I hold all these as suspect. Does anyone have a full matched rig where the stock is not stamped who is absolutely certain that the parts are all original to the rig? [/B][/QUOTE]

The silence is deafening.

Vlim · 01-08-2005, 02:54 PM

Hi George,

Considering the setup of DWM's production plant (and most probably the duplicate, delivered by DWM to the Erfurt arsenal), it's safe to say that most parts were made in house.

I don't think there was a reason to secure stocks to LP08s and therefore identify stocks with the pistol's number. Depending on local need, they probably did sometimes.

Army accceptance stamps are logical as just about everything except the soldiers (and some did

) got stamped. So I can't find a good explanation for stocks that didn't have army acceptance stamps....

So here are my best bets:
Who made the stock irons? DMW and Erfurt.
Who fitted the wood to the iron? DWM and Erfurt.
At what point in the process is the stock matched up with the pistol? Well outside the factory....Pistols go out in crates, stocks go out in crates, holsters go out in crates, etc....They don't leave they factory as completely mated rigs.
Is the crown/M on a Navy stock a proof or an acceptance mark? My best bet? Acceptance mark. I don't think they 'proofed' the stocks like they proofed pistols.

George Anderson · 01-08-2005, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G. van Vlimmeren
Hi George,

Is the crown/M on a Navy stock a proof or an acceptance mark? My best bet? Acceptance mark. I don't think they 'proofed' the stocks like they proofed pistols.

That's my point, were stock irons treated as non weapons and therefore not subject to proofing?

Also, has anyone seen the "G" or the "S" cartouche on GEW98s or other rifles? Lots of cartouche on my long guns but no "S" or "G".

Does anyone know if this stamping was isolated to individuals in factories?

Big Norm · 01-12-2005, 07:15 PM

I guess that Van Vlimmeren's educated guess would help to explain why some stocks have the weapons serial number stamped on the neck of the wood instead of on the attaching iron. But with no cartouche.
Big Norm

George Anderson · 02-18-2005, 08:53 AM

I picked up a stock this weekend that I consider quite unique. The acceptance cartouche is a gothic H, I have never seen one before. Further it has a very crisp crown over "RC" just above the C/H. It is asserted that it came from a 1914 Erfurt. Lastly the serial number is "14" with no suffix!

LU1900 · 02-18-2005, 11:03 AM

The pics Geo !! the pics................
And thanks for them

George Anderson · 02-18-2005, 12:42 PM

Patrice, I will email them to you and maybe you could post them here.

LU1900 · 02-19-2005, 09:25 AM

Just the pics from Geo (USA to France and now come back)

The other one

Very beautiful pics from this rare item with the screws stamped with gothic letter
Thanks Geo

01-04-2005, 10:31 PM	#1
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Proof marks on LP 08 boards. Here is a compilation of proofs from George Anderson and two of mine. My two are noted on the caption. It would appear to me that there is no definite proof used on DWM or Erfurt? Opinions? Sn 246a 1914 Erfurt sn 4469b 1914 Erfurt sn 5865a 1915 DWM sn 3398a 1917 DWM 1126 g My gun matching to gun. 2203 3980g 6713i DWM 513 My stock not matching to gun. __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

02-18-2005, 11:03 AM	#10
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 902 Thanks: 35 Thanked 463 Times in 194 Posts	The pics Geo !! the pics................ And thanks for them __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

01-05-2005, 08:35 AM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Please note that another part of Patrice's question above was whether the Erfurt stock irons carried proofs as the Erfurt pistols do. Neither of my known Erfurt stocks has proofs and, in fact, none of mine have proofs. What does this say about the manufacturing process? Who made the stock irons? Who fitted the wood to the iron? At what point in the process is the stock matched up with the pistol? Is the crown/M on a Navy stock a proof or an acceptance mark? Lastly, I have a number of matched rigs where the stock carries no acceptance stamp. I hold all these as suspect. Does anyone have a full matched rig where the stock is not stamped who is absolutely certain that the parts are all original to the rig?

01-05-2005, 10:46 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	George, Stocks and stock irons are not included in the 1910 marking instructions. --Dwight

01-07-2005, 01:31 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,038 Thanks: 1,021 Thanked 3,896 Times in 1,189 Posts	Hi, Goertz mentions a marking sometimes observed on LP08 stocks. It's a small 'A' for 'austausch' or 'swap' and means that the stock may be swapped between pistols.

01-07-2005, 02:36 PM	#5
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Who made the stock irons? Who fitted the wood to the iron? At what point in the process is the stock matched up with the pistol? Is the crown/M on a Navy stock a proof or an acceptance mark? Lastly, I have a number of matched rigs where the stock carries no acceptance stamp. I hold all these as suspect. Does anyone have a full matched rig where the stock is not stamped who is absolutely certain that the parts are all original to the rig? [/B][/QUOTE] The silence is deafening.

01-08-2005, 02:54 PM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,038 Thanks: 1,021 Thanked 3,896 Times in 1,189 Posts	Hi George, Considering the setup of DWM's production plant (and most probably the duplicate, delivered by DWM to the Erfurt arsenal), it's safe to say that most parts were made in house. I don't think there was a reason to secure stocks to LP08s and therefore identify stocks with the pistol's number. Depending on local need, they probably did sometimes. Army accceptance stamps are logical as just about everything except the soldiers (and some did ) got stamped. So I can't find a good explanation for stocks that didn't have army acceptance stamps.... So here are my best bets: Who made the stock irons? DMW and Erfurt. Who fitted the wood to the iron? DWM and Erfurt. At what point in the process is the stock matched up with the pistol? Well outside the factory....Pistols go out in crates, stocks go out in crates, holsters go out in crates, etc....They don't leave they factory as completely mated rigs. Is the crown/M on a Navy stock a proof or an acceptance mark? My best bet? Acceptance mark. I don't think they 'proofed' the stocks like they proofed pistols.

01-12-2005, 07:15 PM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I guess that Van Vlimmeren's educated guess would help to explain why some stocks have the weapons serial number stamped on the neck of the wood instead of on the attaching iron. But with no cartouche. Big Norm

02-18-2005, 08:53 AM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	I picked up a stock this weekend that I consider quite unique. The acceptance cartouche is a gothic H, I have never seen one before. Further it has a very crisp crown over "RC" just above the C/H. It is asserted that it came from a 1914 Erfurt. Lastly the serial number is "14" with no suffix!

02-18-2005, 12:42 PM	#11
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Patrice, I will email them to you and maybe you could post them here.

02-19-2005, 09:25 AM	#12
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 902 Thanks: 35 Thanked 463 Times in 194 Posts	Just the pics from Geo (USA to France and now come back) The other one Very beautiful pics from this rare item with the screws stamped with gothic letter Thanks Geo