Newbie with a question

rohrboughc · 09-10-2009, 09:03 PM

once was told that a special license was needed to own a luger w/stock. is this true?

thegundude · 09-10-2009, 09:19 PM

No, it's not true. But there is a stipulation...

The Luger in question can only be used with a stock if it was issued with one originally. That means, for all intents and purposes, only the Artillery and Navy P-08s.

I hope this helps...

rohrboughc · 09-11-2009, 11:03 AM

it helps, thank you, but it raises another question...the gun in question has what i recently learned is called the ideal grips and stock. however it is neither the artillery or navy piece. what is the take on this...license/permit needed?

pipeman45 · 09-11-2009, 11:17 AM

From the ATF web site.

SEC. III.

Weapons removed from the NFA as collector's items which are determined to be curios or relics subject to the provisions of the GCA.

Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum cal., having the
American Eagle chamber crest, and barrel lengths of either 4" or 4-3/4", with original
detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal frame grips.

Can you post some pics?
Dave in KY

alanint · 09-11-2009, 11:54 AM

In short;
If these ideal grips are on anything other than a vintage American Eagle Luger they are in violation of the NFA.

rohrboughc · 09-11-2009, 12:03 PM

this luger is pre american eagle. does this mean that the luger was modified?

pipeman45 · 09-11-2009, 12:49 PM

Sound like it was.
I would post some clear pics and let the real experts give their opinions. Be sure to include some pic's of your Ideal stock and grips. You don't see these every day.

Edward Tinker · 09-11-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

If these ideal grips are on anything other than a vintage American Eagle Luger they are in violation of the NFA.

only if the stock is attached.
You can own both, just not legally attach the stock, say if you were at the range.

Presently the regulations state:

Quote:

Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum cal., having the American Eagle chamber crest, and barrel lengths of either 4" or 4-3/4", with original detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal frame grips.

The ATF regulations should be modified to read this (the american eagle phrase taken out, as this would include all the models, because any of these could be bought at that time frame):

Quote:

Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum cal., and barrel lengths of either 4" or 4-3/4", with original detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal frame grips.

What it comes down to is that whomever first put in the request, I bet this was their wording because they had a 1900 AE or the like and never thought about the commericial variants sold in the USA at the time.

Ed

rohrboughc · 09-11-2009, 03:28 PM

Here are photos of the luger

rohrboughc · 09-11-2009, 03:37 PM

word of mouth history of the gun....great grandfather (1st gen american) on a visit to the fatherland, pre WW1, purchased the pistol and brought it home...as is... never been messed with, with the exception of it was dropped once cracking the wood base on a mag....a new one was handcarved by g-gf.

further markings on the weapon are

BG
U
172,28

on the barrel

matching s/n's

GERMANY

on front reciever

s/n is early 5000's

DavidJayUden · 09-11-2009, 03:49 PM

Very cool heirloom.
DJU

John Sabato · 09-11-2009, 06:13 PM

This gun is perfectly legal with the stock. The lack of the American Eagle crest would not be much of an issue. Especially since the gun has been in the family since new.

thegundude · 09-11-2009, 09:50 PM

Very nice rig, thanks for sharing. I'd love to see better and more detailed pics of the Ideal...

Edward Tinker · 09-11-2009, 11:03 PM

Here is a bit of info (although you might already know this)

American Eagles AND non AE marked guns were sent to the USA (I am slowly learning and taking information using up Dwights time)

BG
U
Commonoly called BUG proofing, this proofing was the civilian proof at the time, later guns were then nitro proofed, i.e. Crown N

172,28
This is the land to land measurement, and coorsponds to the caliber 7.65mm (30 luger)

GERMANY
Actually, this is a export marking only for the USA, so either your great grandfather bought it and requested to have it sent to the USA, or he bought it in the USA... perhaps the family story was confused a bit

on front reciever

s/n is early 5000's

Dwight Gruber has a listing with all the serial numbers known (to him), if you could shoot him the entire sn he'd like that if you don't want to publish it here

or send it to me and I'll pass it along

ed_tinker@hotmail.com

Very beautiful rig, I love it.

Ed

rohrboughc · 09-12-2009, 12:19 AM

one more pic of the ideal stock. This side has the bad wear spot corresponding with the front of the reciever. discoloration on the metal is not rust, but I am afraid to "polish it out" without ruining the rest of the finish. Also the leather is going...any product to hold off falling apart? any advice would be appreciated would like to keep in good condition now that it has been entrusted to me.

rohrboughc · 09-12-2009, 12:26 AM

oh, and to Ed T. I am aware that family stories are sometimes "off" had there been proof like a reciept...I wouldnt have said word of mouth history...lol...no worries, I would rather know the truth.

MFC · 09-12-2009, 01:31 AM

172,28 corresponds to the caliber. It is the amount of lead balls, the size of the bore, it takes to make a pound. The Europeans use a comma instead of a decimal point. 8,82 or 8,83 used on later models, is the measurement in millimeters from land to land of the bore.

klaus 3338 · 09-12-2009, 02:12 AM

It´s very nice and can not be find in Germany.
Very nice also that it is in your family for 100 years!
Can we see some closeup photos of the clips and the wooden button?
Regards Klaus

pipeman45 · 09-12-2009, 09:58 AM

Very nice family heirloom. Glad you would take the time to share it with us.
Dave.

09-10-2009, 09:03 PM	#1
rohrboughc User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie with a question once was told that a special license was needed to own a luger w/stock. is this true?

09-10-2009, 09:19 PM	#2
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	No, it's not true. But there is a stipulation... The Luger in question can only be used with a stock if it was issued with one originally. That means, for all intents and purposes, only the Artillery and Navy P-08s. I hope this helps... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

09-11-2009, 11:03 AM	#3
rohrboughc User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	it helps, thank you, but it raises another question...the gun in question has what i recently learned is called the ideal grips and stock. however it is neither the artillery or navy piece. what is the take on this...license/permit needed? Last edited by rohrboughc; 09-11-2009 at 12:33 PM.

09-11-2009, 11:17 AM	#4
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	From the ATF web site. SEC. III. Weapons removed from the NFA as collector's items which are determined to be curios or relics subject to the provisions of the GCA. Luger, DWM Pistol, model 1900, 1902, or 1906, in 7.65 Luger or 9mm parabellum cal., having the American Eagle chamber crest, and barrel lengths of either 4" or 4-3/4", with original detachable Ideal shoulder stocks and Ideal frame grips. Can you post some pics? Dave in KY Last edited by pipeman45; 09-11-2009 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Add Namw

09-11-2009, 03:28 PM	#9
rohrboughc User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are photos of the luger Attached Thumbnails

09-11-2009, 11:54 AM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	In short; If these ideal grips are on anything other than a vintage American Eagle Luger they are in violation of the NFA.

09-11-2009, 12:03 PM	#6
rohrboughc User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	this luger is pre american eagle. does this mean that the luger was modified?

09-11-2009, 12:49 PM	#7
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sound like it was. I would post some clear pics and let the real experts give their opinions. Be sure to include some pic's of your Ideal stock and grips. You don't see these every day.

09-11-2009, 03:37 PM	#10
rohrboughc User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	word of mouth history of the gun....great grandfather (1st gen american) on a visit to the fatherland, pre WW1, purchased the pistol and brought it home...as is... never been messed with, with the exception of it was dropped once cracking the wood base on a mag....a new one was handcarved by g-gf. further markings on the weapon are BG U 172,28 on the barrel matching s/n's GERMANY on front reciever s/n is early 5000's

09-11-2009, 03:49 PM	#11
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Very cool heirloom. DJU

09-11-2009, 06:13 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	This gun is perfectly legal with the stock. The lack of the American Eagle crest would not be much of an issue. Especially since the gun has been in the family since new. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-11-2009, 09:50 PM	#13
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Very nice rig, thanks for sharing. I'd love to see better and more detailed pics of the Ideal... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

09-11-2009, 11:03 PM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,925 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,520 Times in 2,088 Posts	Here is a bit of info (although you might already know this) American Eagles AND non AE marked guns were sent to the USA (I am slowly learning and taking information using up Dwights time) BG U Commonoly called BUG proofing, this proofing was the civilian proof at the time, later guns were then nitro proofed, i.e. Crown N 172,28 This is the land to land measurement, and coorsponds to the caliber 7.65mm (30 luger) GERMANY Actually, this is a export marking only for the USA, so either your great grandfather bought it and requested to have it sent to the USA, or he bought it in the USA... perhaps the family story was confused a bit on front reciever s/n is early 5000's Dwight Gruber has a listing with all the serial numbers known (to him), if you could shoot him the entire sn he'd like that if you don't want to publish it here or send it to me and I'll pass it along ed_tinker@hotmail.com Very beautiful rig, I love it. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-12-2009, 12:19 AM	#15
rohrboughc User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	one more pic of the ideal stock. This side has the bad wear spot corresponding with the front of the reciever. discoloration on the metal is not rust, but I am afraid to "polish it out" without ruining the rest of the finish. Also the leather is going...any product to hold off falling apart? any advice would be appreciated would like to keep in good condition now that it has been entrusted to me. Attached Thumbnails

09-12-2009, 12:26 AM	#16
rohrboughc User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	oh, and to Ed T. I am aware that family stories are sometimes "off" had there been proof like a reciept...I wouldnt have said word of mouth history...lol...no worries, I would rather know the truth.

09-12-2009, 01:31 AM	#17
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	172,28 corresponds to the caliber. It is the amount of lead balls, the size of the bore, it takes to make a pound. The Europeans use a comma instead of a decimal point. 8,82 or 8,83 used on later models, is the measurement in millimeters from land to land of the bore. __________________ Mike C.

09-12-2009, 02:12 AM	#18
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 411 Times in 160 Posts	It´s very nice and can not be find in Germany. Very nice also that it is in your family for 100 years! Can we see some closeup photos of the clips and the wooden button? Regards Klaus

09-12-2009, 09:58 AM	#19
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Very nice family heirloom. Glad you would take the time to share it with us. Dave.