Interesting Powder for 9mm Luger

[sheepherder]

While browsing through my 1979 Speer Reloading Manual, I noticed this interesting note in the section listing powders based on their burning rate, from fastest to slowest...

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

While browsing through my 1979 Speer Reloading Manual, I noticed this interesting note in the section listing powders based on their burning rate, from fastest to slowest...

Hi,

I've tested Blue Dot extensively.

For me, and many do not share my opinion, you have to load Blue Dot too hot to get any accuracy out of it in a 4 inch barreled, P-08, Luger. Also, the muzzle flash is like that of a flare pistol.

I've had some pretty good success with it in an 8 inch barreled, LP-08, however; as it is the second most accurate powder, with this pistol, to date.

Though it is not one of my go to powders for the 9mm Luger, in a Browning design pistol, such as the Browning Hi-Power, it might be just great.

Your thoughts?


Sieger

[Sergio Natali]

I've been reloading for many years especially 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 9X21 IMI, 38 Spl, and 308 Winch.,
In the past I often used Vihtavuori 320, 310, and I think one of my mates of the range uses the WW 231 Recently I use Cheddite granular as it's a lot cheaper.

Just out of curiosity I wonder why nobody of you seem to use Vihtavuori gun powder.

[sheepherder]

Vihtavuori was not available locally, way back when you could actually buy powder.

If I had my druthers, I'd buy a pound or two of W231. It seems to be the 'broad spectrum' powder for the pistols I reload for (bullet makers all have loads for it).

In the past, I would settle on a specific bullet and then try different powders, different charges, until I hit on the 'sweet spot' for that pistol. Now, I just want a load/bullet that will cycle the action. My days of 'Expert Marksman' badges are over. I don't even care about the 10-ring anymore. Hitting paper is good enough.

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Just out of curiosity I wonder why nobody of you seem to use Vihtavuori gun powder.

In my part of the Country, Vihtavouri Powder was not always easy to find even back when all powder was readily available. When you did find it, it was usually twice the price of the "standard" USA powders. Folks that were shooting a lot(1K rounds/month) were not interested due to the higher price. There are some handloaders that rave about it....I have no experience with it.

[Freischütz]

Blue Dot has a spotty reputation. I've read more complaints about it than any other powder.

[sheepherder]

I was somewhat skeptical of the Blue Dot loads that Speer recommended for the 9mm Luger cartridge in their 1987 manual. So I measured out a couple loads and poured them in a 9mm case. Here's what Speer recommends as max loads of Blue Dot for -

95gr FMJ bullet = 9.8gr Blue Dot

115gr FMJ bullet = 8.9gr Blue Dot

Here's my cases...With weighed loads...[pic attached]...

When the Freedom Arms 454 Casull first came out, I bought one of the 'field grade' 8 3/8" bbl stainless revolvers. One of the recommended handloads used a compressed charge of two different powders, layered not mixed. (There was no powder available at that time that would give the energy/velocity that FA advertised). It was pretty scary to shoot, and 'bone jarring' is an understatement.

I imagine these loads that Speer recommends for the 9mm Luger cartridge would be scary, and bone jarring, too...

[rhuff]

Blue Dot is superb in 357Sig at or near max loadings. Extremely accurate with excellent velocity. The flash/bang is also very impressive, especially if you are shooting at an indoor range with a short barreled handgun. I wear ear plugs and muffs for those occasions!!


Loading BD at mid range loads will usually always shoot dirty with a lot of unburned powder. Sort of like 2400 loaded light in 44 Mag. brass. They are both magnum powders like H110, but not as tricky.

[K.Wilhelm]

I've used Green Dot for years in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. All loads have achieved good accuracy and soft recoil. KW

[Ron Smith]

I love Green Dot. I use it in .41 Mag, .44 Spec. and .45 ACP.. Extremely accurate and very economical compared to some other powders.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

Blue dot loads for Lugers has been discussed here quite a bit.

Hmmmmm...I did a Search; there does seem to be a lot of threads with Blue Dot in them...Quite a few before my time here...

There was one comment that made me laugh...That there's no possibility of double-charging with Blue Dot...

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I was somewhat skeptical of the Blue Dot loads that Speer recommended for the 9mm Luger cartridge in their 1987 manual. So I measured out a couple loads and poured them in a 9mm case. Here's what Speer recommends as max loads of Blue Dot for -

95gr FMJ bullet = 9.8gr Blue Dot

115gr FMJ bullet = 8.9gr Blue Dot

Here's my cases...With weighed loads...[pic attached]...

Hi,

To me, these loads are DANGEROUSLY HOT, and shouldn't even be listed here, less someone actually try to load them!!!

Sieger

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Rick W.

I would surmise that the blue dot over charge comment is from a particular point of view, ie Luger type cases; and perhaps a bit of conjecture there as well.

Yes, specifically 9mm Luger cartridges. It was in this thread, post #3 -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=17722

I don't recognize the member, but he specifically states that his loads (not the maximum ones Speer lists) functioned 100% in his Lugers. The Speer handbook cites the Beretta 92SB as the test pistol for these loadings, not the P-08 Luger.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Yes, specifically 9mm Luger cartridges. It was in this thread, post #3 -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=17722

I don't recognize the member, but he specifically states that his loads (not the maximum ones Speer lists) functioned 100% in his Lugers. The Speer handbook cites the Beretta 92SB as the test pistol for these loadings, not the P-08 Luger.

Hi,

Just about any pistol powder can be made to function a Luger. The real question is: which one will provide the most accurate, most powerful (within the original specs. of 123 grain bullet at 1,076 fps) and most consistent handloads?

Blue Dot, simply, will not do that for me in a 4 inch barreled Luger.

If you value your Luger, please do not attempt to shoot +P or +P+ loads of any kind through it, as it was not designed to handle them and they will, eventually wreck your pistol!!!


Sieger

[JD]

Blue Dot is my favorite powder for use in the 9mm Para. In my guns it gives superb accuracy and reliability, the best of any powder that I have tried across the wide spectrum of 9mm's that I own and shoot. The only negative that I've found is that it can have a noticeable muzzle flash, but it doesn't bother me while shooting. Its' slower burning rate seems to give a recoil impulse that allows it to function extremely well, and absolutely no chance of a double charge...

The 8.9 grain load with 115 grain bullet is far too hot for use in a luger (I have used 8.8 grains with a 115 grain bullet in my Sigs and Glocks without a problem, but it really is a +P load with velocities about 1,300 fps.). Particular attention needs to be paid to the overall loaded length of the cartridge, as seating the bullet deeper will raise pressures.

My current shooting loads that have proven to work well in my lugers is 7.5 grains of Blue Dot with either a 115 grain or 124 grain bullet, with an overall cartrige length of 1.169 inches (some hollow point bullets have to be loaded slightly shorter to give an equivalent functioning length equal to 1.169). The 115 grain load produces approx. 1,150 fps, and the 124 grain load approx. 1,080 fps out of my Sig 226's. They function very reliably in my lugers and other 9mm pistols. In several of my lugers they will produce 5 shot groups at 25 yards that run right at 1 inch. In my Browning Hi-Power GP Comp they will shoot groups under 3/4" at 25 yards. I haven't found any other powder that would do as well in my guns.

I know that others may not get the same results with Blue Dot that I have found, but I do know it performs extremely well for me in my loading and I'm very happy with it.... My 2 cents...

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by JD

Blue Dot is my favorite powder for use in the 9mm Para. In my guns it gives superb accuracy and reliability, the best of any powder that I have tried across the wide spectrum of 9mm's that I own and shoot. The only negative that I've found is that it can have a noticeable muzzle flash, but it doesn't bother me while shooting. Its' slower burning rate seems to give a recoil impulse that allows it to function extremely well, and absolutely no chance of a double charge...

The 8.9 grain load with 115 grain bullet is far too hot for use in a luger (I have used 8.8 grains with a 115 grain bullet in my Sigs and Glocks without a problem, but it really is a +P load with velocities about 1,300 fps.). Particular attention needs to be paid to the overall loaded length of the cartridge, as seating the bullet deeper will raise pressures.

My current shooting loads that have proven to work well in my lugers is 7.5 grains of Blue Dot with either a 115 grain or 124 grain bullet, with an overall cartrige length of 1.169 inches (some hollow point bullets have to be loaded slightly shorter to give an equivalent functioning length equal to 1.169). The 115 grain load produces approx. 1,150 fps, and the 124 grain load approx. 1,080 fps out of my Sig 226's. They function very reliably in my lugers and other 9mm pistols. In several of my lugers they will produce 5 shot groups at 25 yards that run right at 1 inch. In my Browning Hi-Power GP Comp they will shoot groups under 3/4" at 25 yards. I haven't found any other powder that would do as well in my guns.

I know that others may not get the same results with Blue Dot that I have found, but I do know it performs extremely well for me in my loading and I'm very happy with it.... My 2 cents...

Hi,

Your accurate 7.5 gr load for the 124 gr bullet makes sense, as when my Luger started showing signs of pressure at 7.2 grains, the groups had just started tightening. I wouldn't go higher than 7.2, again, because of the pressure. The springs in your Luger may have allowed for your 7.5 gr. load, however.

In a Browning High-Power, perhaps, these hotter loads could be shot quite comfortably.

Sieger

For tight groups, try some Power Pistol at about 5.4 gr., as I think you will like it.

[JD]

Sieger,

Thanks for the Power Pistol load suggestion. I'll put it in my list of loads to try. It is always nice to get suggested loads that have been shown to work well.

The 7.5 grains of Blue Dot with a 124 grain bullet isn't a warm load at all. Blue Dot is a slow powder and that load only produces 1,080 fps (chronographed out of one of my Sig 226's). It's really just a standard pressure load. I've loaded 8 grains (not for a luger) and it's still a standard pressure load. It does depend on what bullet you are using and what seatting depth.

Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!

[stressed]

Blue dot is excellent carbine/SMG 9mm powder. You can get some smoking velocities out of a 10"-16" barrel.

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by JD

Sieger,

Thanks for the Power Pistol load suggestion. I'll put it in my list of loads to try. It is always nice to get suggested loads that have been shown to work well.

The 7.5 grains of Blue Dot with a 124 grain bullet isn't a warm load at all. Blue Dot is a slow powder and that load only produces 1,080 fps (chronographed out of one of my Sig 226's). It's really just a standard pressure load. I've loaded 8 grains (not for a luger) and it's still a standard pressure load. It does depend on what bullet you are using and what seatting depth.

Thanks again!!!!!!!!!!

This all depends on which reloading manual you are using. In Lyman's 49th, your 7.5gr of BD load is over max load for 124gr FMJ. If you are using Speer Manual, then you are loading in the "middle of the road".

On loads like this, I usually try to get 3-4 different manuals for the powder and the bullet, and sort of extrapolate where I want to start developing the load, and what I consider the max loading. We all do things our own way, but being safe is paramount to me.

[JD]

You have to pay careful attention to the overall loaded length. Some of the manuals have bullets seated extremely deeply, and typically they show much lighter loads as max. With bullets seated out, they seem to function better in my 9mm's, and a must for use in a luger. I don't know if it is still true, but at one time Hornady showed something like 1.08 inches for the loaded length with their 124 grain truncated cone bullet. Way on the short side......

With 124 grain bullets, some Blue Dot data goes up as high as 8.5 grains, and velocities up to 1,300 fps. At 7.5 grains and a velocity of 1,080, in my guns it is a rather mild load....