S/42 fire test, jammed b'z of 115 ammo - Page 3

rhuff · 05-31-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mario17

I just explore it a bit, it's my first arm +

Best
M

Because of this statement, I am going to repeat what David said earlier in this thread.....you MUST have a firm grip(one handed or two handed) on a Luger when firing it, or it will malfunction. This has been proven over and over again by many here.

Sieger · 06-01-2016, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

Because of this statement, I am going to repeat what David said earlier in this thread.....you MUST have a firm grip(one handed or two handed) on a Luger when firing it, or it will malfunction. This has been proven over and over again by many here.

Hi,

Others of us think this is a complete fairytale.

Sieger

kurusu · 06-01-2016, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Hi,

Others of us think this is a complete fairytale.

Sieger

Me included.

John Sabato · 06-01-2016, 01:46 PM

<SOAP BOX MODE ON>
You will have to count me among those that give credence to this "fairytale"

There are so many engineering principles and delicate energy balances in play when a Luger is fired that it is certainly not beyond the pale of reality that failure to provide the proper resistance to the forces acting on the frame can upset that balance.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Remember that law of Newton? Well what happens when the action is mitigated by inadequate resistance (holding the Luger with less than a firm grip) to the recoil action? Is it not likely that the performance of the pistol may suffer if the recoil force is buffered by excessive movement of the frame caused by a limp wrist? I think so.

While the stories of improved performance by a firm grip may only be anecdotal and have not been scientifically proven, the sheer number of such anecdotal stories carries some weight in this community. Combine those stories with the questions I posed in the previous paragraph and you can easily start to form an opinion based on educated guesses and experience.

I spent almost 8 months as the coach (and participant) on a U.S. Army combat pistol team using issue M1911A1 .45 ACP pistols, frequently shooting thousands of rounds a week... and know first hand that your aiming point and point of impact are definitely affected by not using a "uniform" grip.

When competitively shooting my grip was practiced to be uniform, and after shooting you could easily see the impression of the mainspring housing and front grip strap in my hand. My target hits were always worse when I failed to maintain the proper grip.

While IMHO the design of the Colt .45 isn't as susceptible to "limp wrist-ing" as the Luger with regard to reliability, ---you will have to count me among the "believers."
<SOAP BOX MODE OFF>

DonVoigt · 06-01-2016, 01:55 PM

One can't suspend the rules of physics, any recoil operated arm IS affected by the "grip"; only question is one of degree and Way too many factors come into play to make any definitive statement.

Other than "it has some effect" and is certainly not a "fairy tale".

Sieger · 06-01-2016, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

One can't suspend the rules of physics, any recoil operated arm IS affected by the "grip"; only question is one of degree and Way too many factors come into play to make any definitive statement.

Other than "it has some effect" and is certainly not a "fairy tale".

Well,

I hold my Lugers the same way I hold all of my other handguns and have never experience any problems, so to me, in my reality, it is still a fairytale.

Another good fairytale is that a 9mm can't shoot lead bullets accurately.

Sieger

Sieger · 06-01-2016, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

<SOAP BOX MODE ON>
You will have to count me among those that give credence to this "fairytale"

There are so many engineering principles and delicate energy balances in play when a Luger is fired that it is certainly not beyond the pale of reality that failure to provide the proper resistance to the forces acting on the frame can upset that balance.

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Remember that law of Newton? Well what happens when the action is mitigated by inadequate resistance (holding the Luger with less than a firm grip) to the recoil action? Is it not likely that the performance of the pistol may suffer if the recoil force is buffered by excessive movement of the frame caused by a limp wrist? I think so.

While the stories of improved performance by a firm grip may only be anecdotal and have not been scientifically proven, the sheer number of such anecdotal stories carries some weight in this community. Combine those stories with the questions I posed in the previous paragraph and you can easily start to form an opinion based on educated guesses and experience.

I spent almost 8 months as the coach (and participant) on a U.S. Army combat pistol team using issue M1911A1 .45 ACP pistols, frequently shooting thousands of rounds a week... and know first hand that your aiming point and point of impact are definitely affected by not using a "uniform" grip.

When competitively shooting my grip was practiced to be uniform, and after shooting you could easily see the impression of the mainspring housing and front grip strap in my hand. My target hits were always worse when I failed to maintain the proper grip.

While IMHO the design of the Colt .45 isn't as susceptible to "limp wrist-ing" as the Luger with regard to reliability, ---you will have to count me among the "believers."
<SOAP BOX MODE OFF>

Well,

Respectfully, you really can't compare the action of a Browning design with that of a Luger, as they are two different birds.

The proper way to grip a Luger is discussed in the original owners' manuals. Do we have a copy available on the forum? If not, we may want to consider posting one.

Many thanks John!

Sieger

kurusu · 06-01-2016, 04:08 PM

Adding wood to the fire.

A firm hold with a 9 mil (any 9 mil for that matter) is necessary if you want to hit whatever you're aiming for (one handed I mean). Besides that, and I did it countless times just to prove it, limp wristing a Luger (in good working order), or any other 9 mil that I've tried, has never affected reliability.

Climbing out of the soap box that I inadvertently stepped on.

06-01-2016, 01:46 PM	#44
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	<SOAP BOX MODE ON> You will have to count me among those that give credence to this "fairytale" There are so many engineering principles and delicate energy balances in play when a Luger is fired that it is certainly not beyond the pale of reality that failure to provide the proper resistance to the forces acting on the frame can upset that balance. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Remember that law of Newton? Well what happens when the action is mitigated by inadequate resistance (holding the Luger with less than a firm grip) to the recoil action? Is it not likely that the performance of the pistol may suffer if the recoil force is buffered by excessive movement of the frame caused by a limp wrist? I think so. While the stories of improved performance by a firm grip may only be anecdotal and have not been scientifically proven, the sheer number of such anecdotal stories carries some weight in this community. Combine those stories with the questions I posed in the previous paragraph and you can easily start to form an opinion based on educated guesses and experience. I spent almost 8 months as the coach (and participant) on a U.S. Army combat pistol team using issue M1911A1 .45 ACP pistols, frequently shooting thousands of rounds a week... and know first hand that your aiming point and point of impact are definitely affected by not using a "uniform" grip. When competitively shooting my grip was practiced to be uniform, and after shooting you could easily see the impression of the mainspring housing and front grip strap in my hand. My target hits were always worse when I failed to maintain the proper grip. While IMHO the design of the Colt .45 isn't as susceptible to "limp wrist-ing" as the Luger with regard to reliability, ---you will have to count me among the "believers." <SOAP BOX MODE OFF> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-01-2016, 01:55 PM	#45
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,440 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	One can't suspend the rules of physics, any recoil operated arm IS affected by the "grip"; only question is one of degree and Way too many factors come into play to make any definitive statement. Other than "it has some effect" and is certainly not a "fairy tale". __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

06-01-2016, 04:08 PM	#48
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	Adding wood to the fire. A firm hold with a 9 mil (any 9 mil for that matter) is necessary if you want to hit whatever you're aiming for (one handed I mean). Besides that, and I did it countless times just to prove it, limp wristing a Luger (in good working order), or any other 9 mil that I've tried, has never affected reliability. Climbing out of the soap box that I inadvertently stepped on.