Ejection problem

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by admiral1960

OK Guys, enough levity, down to business.

The ejector is broken, the front part that does the ejecting, I assume., is missing about 1/4" .

Will attach photos if I am able.

Thank you guys again for the input.


Any suggestions as to where to purchase another one ?

Great attitude when asking for help.

[admiral1960]

Mario,

Again, thank you for the information. Will try him.

Don,

Can't tell if your remark was negative or positive. If positive, thank you, if negative, I was trying to be FUNNY. If I offended I apologize.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by admiral1960

Mario,

Again, thank you for the information. Will try him.

Don,

Can't tell if your remark was negative or positive. If positive, thank you, if negative, I was trying to be FUNNY. If I offended I apologize.

Both, that is what the are for!

[4 Scale]

Originally Posted by kurusu

Removing the ejector is a piece of cake. You will find out that putting it in place may require the use of some foul language.

I have found that a modest rap from a small rubber hammer will seat the ejector. Alternatively a small piece of scrap wood over the ejector, hit with a handy tool such as the butt of a larger screwdriver, will do the job. No untoward language required, unless you miss the ejector and hit your thumb.

If Tom Heller doesn't have an ejector they can sometimes be found on eBay.

[DonVoigt]

Aftermarket ejectors are often tough, and require judicious filing of the round locating/securing projection to lock in.
Sometimes/frequently they are too long and rub at the front, the ejector must move freely through the slot and enter its cut out fully to function correctly.

Occasionally they just won't fit and you will need another; originals are best, but sometimes they just won't fit either.

Of course you need the later "new model" ejector, the ejector for the "old model" ejector looks the same but the projections are in different relative locations.

[admiral1960]

Thanks for the input guys, I will most likely order it from docluger but there are a number of other sources available.

The worst part of it is the serial number, but if you use a tool you have to expect issues.

Replacing the ejector reminds me of reassembling the bolt on an M1.

First time I did it I ordered a tool for $15 from someone and while waiting for it thought to see if there was a YOUTUBE video showing how to do it. There was / is and the guy doing it tapped a nail into the side of his workbench and in 2 seconds had it done. I did the same and it took me more time than the guy in the video but easy to do.

Still have not used this $15 tool.

I am not expecting to have to buy a tool to get it done but I am tuning up my language...…..

[4 Scale]

The advantage of buying from Tom is that he may have an original; all else being equal an orginal should have the best chance of an easy fit. Ejectors, like all Luger parts including orginal parts, sometimes fit and sometimes they don't. Manufacturing tolerances were different then. Be sure to tell Tom your model year. Plus it's just more fun to shoot these with orginal parts.

I appreciate you posting pictures. A lot of times people ask for help on function and we never hear from them again, not knowing resolution.

For a one-time install the only "tool" that I'd suggest would be a popsicle stick, used as a pry-bar / shock absorber. I prefer Hagaan Daz but likely other brands will work.

[admiral1960]

Will most likely buy from Tom and will be sure to identify the year / maker to him.

Thanks again for all the input.

When I obtain a replacement part I may be asking more questions.

All of you have a good Thanksgiving !!!!

[sheepherder]

I have long suspected that the ejector on the Luger does not do much of anything. Repeated instances of ejected cartridge cases smacking me in the forehead, hat, and arm have led me to believe that the extractor does the job of ejecting. I am of the opinion that the ejector is a 'belt and suspenders' kind of addition. Some individual Lugers may require it; some may not.

Georg Luger adapted the Parabellum pistol from Hugo Borchardt's C93 auto pistol. It does not use an 'ejector'. The extractor does the ejecting.

I have owned four Mauser C96 auto loading pistols. They also eject the cases up and back, not to the side. That pistol also does not use an 'ejector'. The extractor does the ejecting.

The Type 14 Nambu does not have an ejector. The extractor does the ejecting. And it also ejects up and back, not to the side.

Posts like this one make me think that Luger's adaptation was flawed in this respect. If the ejector was doing its job correctly then the cases should be coming out the side and back, not up and back. The broken ejector, left in, may be the cause of the stovepipes.

I have a parts P08 Luger that I will be fitting together this week, I am going to test shooting it with the ejector installed and with it not installed.

I'm not sure if a test like I described would be definitive. DWM/G. Luger adapted an existing design, and in making it better, they may have introduced unintended flaws. And the "Luger" was 'designed' for the 7.65mm bottleneck cartridge (a shortened Mauser C96 cartridge), not the 9mm cartridge. Another 'improvement' that may have its own feeding/extracting/ejecting failings.

My own long-held $.02 belief...

[admiral1960]

Mario,

I thought it was a numbered part.

One publication indicated it is numbered.

Will find out for sure when I remove it.

For Sheepherder, I removed barrel assembly from frame and chambered a round and manually operated the toggle link and the ejector holding the rim of the casing would move back as far as it could but without the extractor tip there the case would not eject.

Some may operate without the extractor but I would be surprised if any would. Please let me know how yours operates without the extractor. In inquiring minds want to know...………...

[ithacaartist]

Let's look at the physics involved, folks.

An object's direction of travel does not change unless/until there's a force applied to it. Upon ignition, the entire upper moves back. As the receiver's regression is halted by its lug, the toggle links are deflected to transfer kinetic energy into the recoil spring. This does not affect the breech block's direction of travel, which at this point is also shared by the empty casing--straight back. Without having its rim flicked by the ejector, the empty would continue its journey straight back. Although it may disengage itself from the extractor without this influence, there's nothing to make the casing change direction specifically to escape the action. This would result in a jam, either horizontal or vertical.

It's feasible that a gun that is ejecting effectively may not necessarily be doing it correctly--as we've seen in recent discussions in posts about empties' being bent/deformed/gouged as they exit. Slow motion YouTubes show how a shell quite often jangles and bounces around during the trip, yet still makes it out of the action, albeit dependably.

My considered opinion is that the claws of the extractor become/provide a 2-point pivot as the casing is rotated out of its grasp. I think their relative length will bias ejection left or right. I also think that the place relative to the extractor where the rim encounters the ejector makes a difference, after the subject was hashed out on another thread not too long ago.

For blow-back pistols, it's the opposite of Rich's thesis, and the extractor is the part that can be done without. A great example would be that when I've lost an extractor from one of the Erma pistols, I usually don't notice until I've finished the mag. Pointing it doesn't give the view necessary to notice, and the pistol cycles fine... If I still have a remaining loaded mag, I just fire it off anyway, without the extractor.

An ejector's orientation in the action is on a center-line including the extractor and the diameter of the case, as well as its intended direction of travel, right? I can't think of a big exception, if any.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kurusu

Just remove the ejector and go shoot. You will soon find out it's there for a reason.

If you are getting spent cases on your head. The problem is with you, not the pistol.

I don't think so. It only happens with top extracting handguns. It may not happen with all Lugers. It may be that some extractors hold the shell tightly and some grip it loosely. When it pulls out of the chamber it may snap up & out. Or it may slide along until the ejector hits it.

I don't have the last two Lugers that I know ejected up & back. I'll have to ask my nephew if he's noticed it (he has them).

Limp wristing is not one of my many faults. Usually.

[DavidJayUden]

For Sheepherder, I removed barrel assembly from frame and chambered a round and manually operated the toggle link and the ejector holding the rim of the casing would move back as far as it could but without the extractor tip there the case would not eject.

2 important points: It appears that the ejector and the extractor are being misidentified, and more importantly, please understand that the upper half will shoot with a loaded round in the chamber even if removed from the lower. Treat the upper like any loaded firearm.

dju

[admiral1960]

You are correct!

I got confused at one (many) time while finding the problem.

You say tomato, I say extractor, or was it ejector...………………….

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kurusu

Just curious. You shoot one handed or two handed? The Luger wss designed when two hands shooting wasn't common. When one shoots two handed the gun ends up cliser to your face.

Two handed; the Weaver stance, I think it's called. It's not the way I was trained - The M1911 [military] training was one-handed, side-on to target. Later I shot the S&W Model 14, and later still, the M9 [Beretta]. Results of my military handgun qualification are in the pic below (he said, modestly). .

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

An object's direction of travel does not change unless/until there's a force applied to it.

Exactly. A tight extractor exerts force on the top of the case, squeezing it against the breech face. After it leaves the chamber, the case snaps up. A loose extractor doesn't exert any force - it just pulls. Until the case hits the ejector.

All good stuff, and all correct. The defining difference is in the individual Luger. I'm sure there are other factors involved as well. Mechanical and human.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by kurusu

Also curious. How many points in how many possibles and at what distance to get those? Like to know the size of the bullseye too.

You'd have to look all that up. I wasn't shooting in competition; for annual qualification only. Both rifle & pistol (the bronze device). Collection of targets was done by Combat Arms instructors. All shooting outdoors. It'll be 20 years ago next month. I'm lucky if I can remember my safe combination.

[admiral1960]

Who would have thought that a broken ejector (not extractor) would create all this discussion.

Very interesting to see all the different ideas that are floating around out there.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by kurusu

The toggle joint is "broken" when the knobs hit the "ears" ramps before the receiver regression is halted.

Indeed. The toggle knobs begin to rise slightly before the lug hits. Probably in the realm of milliseconds, but the joint begins to break first. This makes sense in order to produce the most positive "breaking" effect, with the momentum of the entire top end behind it, albeit very briefly, before the toggle train carries on by itself. My initial description was sloppy, sorry.

[DavidJayUden]

Who would have thought that a broken ejector (not extractor) would create all this discussion?.

Me.

dju

[DonVoigt]

And here I thought it was the "injector"; which if missing has no effect at all.